Zaph zrt advices: components and building doubts - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Multi-Way

Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 13th October 2010, 06:05 PM   #1
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Default Zaph zrt advices: components and building doubts

Hi all,

I am beginning to build a thrusted project, Zaph ZRT two way, and *obviously* I wish to make all by myself, without madisound cabs.

Now I have some doubts about cabinet sizing and crossover components. I will be a little schematic here, hope this don-t hurt.

1. Cabinet. I would go traslam, a la Magico Mini, tower version. This is leading me to madness, couse I wish let the baffle dimensions identical as the original BUT this maybe excludes the possibility of a largely rounded baffle. I would make substantially an 1 inch radius roundover but how can I obtain the effective, corrispondent dimension of the original project baffle width (sharp edges)?
Should I consider an average point? only the external distance between the side walls?
Please give me any imput about this.

2. Crossover coil(s)
I am choosing the right caps and coils. The original Zaph's scheme claims for a 2,7 mh coil for the woofer, with a rdc of 0.168 ohm. Essentially he go for the cheap way, and I could agree but living in Italy I must use other stuff, not exactly with same specs.
I could go essentially for this 4 solutions>

a. munforf flat foil inductance. Expensive and with an rdc of >0.30 ohm. Worth the extra cost or will simply ruin the damping of the woofer (double the rdc) without evident benefits?
b. Intertechnik generic ferrite coil. wery low rdc (.11). Maybe too much low? Could be a problem?
c. Intertechnik tritec litz hq ferrite coil. Fast right rdc (.15), a little expensive but affordable.
d. Mundorf zero ohm coil. Hilariously low rdc, expensive as a mid level tweeter but maybe a good way to obtain fast, damped bass. Maybe definetively overkill anyway.

What would you use? Eventually a 5th option is welcome.

3. Crossover/ general.
I think going with obbligato caps (tweeter series) and lesser poliprop from jantzen (crosscap) or similar. I have read a lot of different opinion about parallel caps... some people claims for the absolute importance of HIGH quality caps in this places too....other prefer to alternate very good ones in series with cra**y ones in parallel.
What do you think about?

I would hear any feedback, considerations, advices from diyers and people more expert than me.

thanks!

Last edited by francorovereto; 13th October 2010 at 06:14 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 07:06 PM   #2
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Ps> sorry for my poor english!
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 07:57 PM   #3
diyAudio Member
 
sdclc126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
1. Translam cabinets look nice but are a lot of work - buy or build a traditional, well damped, well braced cabinet and save youself some headaches.

2. & 3. Use the exact component specifications as in the design, but forget the ridiculously priced boutique stuff - you will not hear a difference.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 08:25 PM   #4
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
thank you for the quick reply!

Essentially, i would go translam couse i am bored of the typical rectangular box and building a complex thing will prolong my enjoyment! diy for me is also making a beautiful thing too. And MAYBE this beautiful thing will sound a little better than a regular box. Dunno. Doesnt matter to much.
Anyway,
Given the sad reality (I can't find here exact values) what could be the effect REDUCING the rdc of the coil? Could the Crossover be altered or changed?
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 08:51 PM   #5
diyAudio Member
 
sdclc126's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Then go translam, by all means - just keep the internal volume the same.

As for the inductors - best to buy ones that are over specced and then reduce the size to correct by removing lengths of coil. You can use this calculator here:

Inductor Designer / Calculator

Click on the Help button below the value inputs and look at the table to see how to match the dcr as close as possible.

Last edited by sdclc126; 13th October 2010 at 08:57 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 09:39 PM   #6
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
ok, sorry but I think that my bad explanation has led to misunderstanding. Naturally 2,7mh is a common value and I can easily find it. Is the resistance value the one that differs. A bit less or a bit more, accordingly to examples i made in the first post. I know that more R lead to a more sloppy, muddy bass and less control of the woofer, and reducing R can better this area. My question is about the possibility to have bad effects reducing (only a bit ..say 0.05 ohm difference) the coil resistance or the difference/effect is totally negligible.
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 09:40 PM   #7
jwmbro is offline jwmbro  United States
diyAudio Member
 
jwmbro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: München, Bavaria, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by francorovereto View Post
thank you for the quick reply!

Essentially, i would go translam couse i am bored of the typical rectangular box and building a complex thing will prolong my enjoyment! diy for me is also making a beautiful thing too. And MAYBE this beautiful thing will sound a little better than a regular box. Dunno. Doesnt matter to much.
Anyway,
Given the sad reality (I can't find here exact values) what could be the effect REDUCING the rdc of the coil? Could the Crossover be altered or changed?
If the DC-resistance is too low, that's easy to fix. Just ad a series resistor to bring it up to the desired resistance. Simple addition of resistances when in series.
__________________
Regards, James
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 10:14 PM   #8
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
muble muble muble.
Ok. This is a solution i could go for.
I have seen that madisound sells two crossover, one with a flat foil copper coil and one with sledgehammer coil. I doubt that the rdc between the two coil is the same... so i had argued that be absolutely precise about this value is not worth the pain of find a 0.05ohm/hi wattage resistance or make it with more resistances paralleled.
I am still unhappy thinking to add a resistor in series with the woofer.
I was considering that a lower rdc coil could be conceptually better for this duty, but i was unsecure about the possibility of change, altreing rdc of the coil, the crossover slope , something in bsc or things like this.
At this point, this could be more a curiousity than a pratical issue.. knowing anyway that caps tolerances and other 1000 variables should be anyway considered. And accepted consequently. Obsessive hifimania can lead to severe health problems!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 13th October 2010, 11:45 PM   #9
tamule is offline tamule  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
hi franco , I strongly suggest reading Zaph's "2-way options" for this build. I ended up cutting out the woofer coil after completion and unwinding it to 2.2 mH. At 2.7mH the midrange seemed a little recessed on most pop-rock cds in my room.
For the woofer coil I used 10 ga air-core from North Creek Music.
I've had these speakers 6 months now after Maggie 3.6Rs and have never looked back.
regards,tom
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCN0110.JPG (442.2 KB, 493 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 14th October 2010, 09:00 AM   #10
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Right, i've read this part of Zaph's reccomendations but i'll wait to hear the results of original values in my room and then eventually i'll make changes according to my tastes. Probably i'll go for reducing the coil value anyway, I normally like a more forward-sounding speaker. Once the burn-in has ended, i'll go for tweaks (woofer coil and probably tweeter series R adjustment).
You wrote that in your speaker you use an (huge) AIR coil. This coils are really expensive and really thick wired... why have you choosen this way and not a cored coil?
Are ferrite core/transformer coils not enought for your purposes? Do you think that the difference (distortion, core saturation) is worth the extra expense?
Thanks for your feedback.

I'm still curious about the influence of coils rdc vs crossover's slope and woofer behaviour!
ciao
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone have Zaph ZRT Revelators in New York City? bfs21 Multi-Way 1 23rd April 2012 03:52 AM
Zaph ZRT - Bracing question (re: 'holes' in braces) Monroe Multi-Way 40 3rd April 2012 12:37 PM
Zaph ZRT Tweeter Placement ciagon Multi-Way 0 14th March 2010 06:25 AM
Help with first Build (Seas CNO MkII or Zaph ZRT) whimsical Multi-Way 2 6th July 2009 05:40 PM
Zaph ZRT -vs- ProAc 2.5 clone jallenbass Multi-Way 4 23rd August 2008 02:15 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:22 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2