DIY MUsical Sounding Speakers

[audiojoy]

I have been working on an open baffle speaker for some time now, using the Bastani clone. I loved the dynamics, transparency and live feel, but struggled to get it to sound musical. This no doubt will be due to a combination of inadequate harmonics, timing and rhythm etc etc, which gives music the soul and fun factor making you want to listen to albums all the way through even those you thought you disliked. Musicality makes your foot tap to the beat and allows you to emerse yourself in the meaning of the piece, if not life itself when you are really moved by a piece.

I have owned a lot of high end equipment in my time and i forgot why most of the time I only listened to the same few tracks off each of a handful of albums. I sat one day in my listening room and scanned my eyes across the hundreds of cd's and Lp's I owned and realised hardly any of them got an outing on any of my systems!!!!! I remembered my first high end systems with a townsend rock and harbeth speakers, and remmber getting excited about a concert or getting high on one of my favourite jazz tracks, That was over 8 years ago!! I had obviously lost my way.

So, having got frustrated with my current project I went and bought for a couple of hundred quid a second hand pair of Neat petites with the tonigen ribbon tweeter. I knew this company designed their equipment mostly by ear and both designers were musicians. Yes the sound had wonderful swing and flow, the emotions from voices seemed more purposeful from what can only be desribed as being due to finer shadings of harmonics. However the speakers were not as dynamic, lacked air and were not as detailed as my DIY jobs. Yet every instrument played a tune and had a soul with the Neats. I could listen and enjoy album after album, because I got it, the music i mean.


My Question is, how many of you guys actually build in musicality into your designs, if so whats the magic??????? Drivers?? crossover?? enclosed versus open baffle??

My understanding is that a lot of the so called musical sounding pieces of Hifi equipment especially speakers are designed by musicians. Those in the know will appreciate the virtues of the following pieces of equipment, if not, then with no disrespect i suspect you will not be able to answer my query adequately.

Neat
NAIM
AUDIONOTE
Devore fidelity
Harbeth
Exposure
Linn sondek
Totem
Rega
Sonneteer

etc etc.

[sreten]

Hi,

The may be musicians but to do it right you also have to be an engineer.
Its the tools that allow you to choose drivers, develop the crossover
and then "voice" the louspeaker by finely balanced tuning.
Enclosure contruction is another area dominated by the engineering.

There is no "magic" its just doing it properly with experienced ears.

rgds, sreten.

[audiojoy]

thanks for your reply sreten.

I am not disputing that engineers are not needed for the development of the speakers, but it is the designers ears that leads the way.

So what drivers? what type of enclosure and crossover? do you believe would help me achieve the sound I am after??

[sreten]

Originally Posted by audiojoy

thanks for your reply sreten.

I am not disputing that engineers are not needed for the development
of the speakers, but it is the designers ears that leads the way.

So what drivers? what type of enclosure and crossover?
do you believe would help me achieve the sound I am after??

Hi,

NIMO. Most of the design choices are led by the engineering, you cannot
do a very good job armed with only your ears, a bunch of various drivers,
various c/o components and the wood with woodworking facilities.

What your ears tell you with experience is which approach you prefer.
There are lots of approaches, I don't dislike any done correctly.

I dislike any approach that does not consider the factors correctly.

rgds, sreten.

Paul Carmody's DIY Audio Projects - undefinition
Zaph|Audio
FRD Consortium tools guide
RJB Audio Projects
Speaker Design Works
HTGuide Forum - A Guide to HTguide.com Completed Speaker Designs.
Humble Homemade Hifi
Click below to go to
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design
The Frugal-Horns Site -- High Performance, Low Cost DIY Horn Designs
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
Music and Design

[audiojoy]

I respect your opinion Sreten, and you have made your point.

I would prefer to have some ideas in a simple format from the guys on line about their experiences, in particular open baffle speakers and getting one to sound musical in the form i have described.

Thanks

[Godzilla]

>>> My Question is, how many of you guys actually build in musicality into your designs, if so whats the magic??????? Drivers?? crossover?? enclosed versus open baffle??

The magic may simply be a designer adding his or her personality to the sound. For example, a speaker designer may decide to incorporate a fuller sounding bass into his product resulting in a group of dedicated customers who prefer the sound compared to more accurately engineered products.

I design my own speakers for my own enjoyment but always try to figure the ‘most correct’ way to do it first. Then I alter things to suit my taste (more treble, more bass, etc).

There may also be an argument made how different materials sound more musical. I tend to prefer tubes to solid state. To me, they are more musical. For speakers, some prefer the sound of paper cones over poly, metal or Kevlar.

I’m not sure you will find ‘magic’ at the source rather design choices resulting in more musical sound.

Btw, I have heard Linn, Totem and Rega products (none of the others on your list) and was never too impressed by their sonic signature. Maybe add a subwoofer system to the Neat’s you enjoy to capture some of the missing dynamics you are after.

[sreten]

Originally Posted by audiojoy

I respect your opinion Sreten, and you have made your point.

I would prefer to have some ideas in a simple format from the guys
on line about their experiences, in particular open baffle speakers
and getting one to sound musical in the form i have described.

Thanks

Hi,

I understand your viewpoint too, but you seem to want subjective
"rules of thumb" answers to a question that is basically objective,
I do not believe there are any reliable subjective answers.

e.g. see
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
and
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project08/Jordan.pdf
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Project0..._Crossover.pdf

And then Linkwitz Labs and Music & Design for a full exposition
of the issues related to open baffles, there are no simple ideas
AFAICT that are relevant, just complicated ones to be understood.

The simplest idea that may be relevant to poorly designed OB speakers
might be "if it's not flat it's not flat" and minor modifiications won't help.

rgds, sreten.

[audiojoy]

Thanks for the replies.

That was a complete waste of time then! For me that is

[sreten]

Originally Posted by audiojoy

Thanks for the replies.

That was a complete waste of time then! For me that is

Hi,

Not really, relatively flat frequency response is the hallmark of any
good loudspeaker, the most important parameter by far, lots of
OB designs are lash ups ignoring this fundamental princinple, you
cannot really judge OB's unless you've heard a relatively flat one.

rgds, sreten.

[audiojoy]

Wrong Forum - should have known better