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Old 9th September 2010, 02:15 AM   #11
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcandy View Post
No doubt a poorly-made capacitor will exhibit non-capacitive artifacts (that is, it will behave in a non-ideal way). I'm surprised we haven't seen anyone do some SPL and distortion sweeps using a selection of audiophile-grade polypropylene capacitors using a simple, say, high-pass filter. When corrected for differences in capacitance (there will be small variances in overall capacitance which could bias some tests), it seems very unlikely to me that differences are audible. But who can say without the data?
You can listen to some capacitor difference test results here:
Audio DiffMaker example files
You'll need Audio DiffMaker to play them back:
http://libinst.com/Audio_DiffMaker_Install.exe

The situation that shows an audible difference was pretty extreme, though: the worst dielectric ceramic type used as a highpass with corner in the audio range. Using a good quality polypropylene film on the other hand didn't show much difference.
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Old 9th September 2010, 10:39 AM   #12
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DiffMaker is not going to be a good tool for this alone.
It ether relies on measurement taken at two different times, or by two different measurer (channels).
But that's just my opinion.

There was an excellent post about using a mirrored test signal run back to back, then you reversed it and run it again. Than you flipped one of the mirrors and compared that (comparison could be done with DiffMaker if wanted)
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Old 9th September 2010, 01:55 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
Check this out as well:
http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/I...e=post&id=5415

Badman, have you read the AES article? If so, could you summarize it a bit?

Thanks,

Dan
Spectral Waveform Analysis was also used in an attempt to measure differences in $1 NPE's and $30 boutique film types with the same uF level.
Capacitor myths revisited - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
Download the paper in the second post.
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Old 9th September 2010, 04:42 PM   #14
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If you have ears, you will hear a difference. I do not see why if everything is the same on measurements it should sound the same. Sometimes it is very big, but...yes there is one "but" - If you try to compare capacitors with rubbish speakers for 50-100$ - you should not hear any difference. Sometimes you may find a cheap component made for a different application ( not "audio grade" ) which sounds better than many "audiophile" caps, resistors and etc.

This will be my only post in this thread so please do not try to argue - it is my personal opinion and listening experience.

Cheers,
Mario

Last edited by Mario Pankov; 9th September 2010 at 04:44 PM.
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Old 9th September 2010, 05:25 PM   #15
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Caps do make a difference to me. I performed a simple blind test at home with my dad, and got 47/50 attempts correct at differenciating between a 4.7uF solen vs 4.7uF Mundorf Silver in Oil cap. Whether you hear a difference is up to the person's personal listening skills and experience.

Is this skill a good thing to have? Not at all. Now I have to dump my cheap caps and spend more damned $$ !!
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Old 9th September 2010, 05:37 PM   #16
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If you believe that cd is as good as our ears then Diffmaker proves capacitor swaps aren't generally an audible change. If however you believe you hear better than cd, then Diffmaker is just a pointless piece of **** cd quality junk software that deserves to be in the bin along with $5 Oscilloscopes.

The truth is probably somewhere in between these two extremes.
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Old 9th September 2010, 06:02 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
Spectral Waveform Analysis was also used in an attempt to measure differences in $1 NPE's and $30 boutique film types with the same uF level.
Capacitor myths revisited - The Classic Speaker Pages Discussion Forums
Download the paper in the second post.
Strange. I am not able to see a second post or the paper, only the first post.
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Old 9th September 2010, 06:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jcandy View Post
Strange. I am not able to see a second post or the paper, only the first post.
Did you scroll down to post #2? the downloadable file is there. It's a .pdf.
I'd attach the same downloadable file here but it's too large for the diyaudio system to accept.
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Old 9th September 2010, 07:06 PM   #19
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sq225917 View Post
If you believe that cd is as good as our ears then Diffmaker proves capacitor swaps aren't generally an audible change. If however you believe you hear better than cd, then Diffmaker is just a pointless piece of **** cd quality junk software that deserves to be in the bin along with $5 Oscilloscopes.

The truth is probably somewhere in between these two extremes.
So, have you read the DiffMaker docs or tried the program? If not, a point of interest: you can use DM all the way up to 24bit, 192kHz, way above CD quality. It can be as accurate or better than what is being used to record the music you listen to (unless you are one to believe that vinyl or R-R is better than any digital). Quite insulting (not to mention, rather ignorant) post you made there.
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Old 9th September 2010, 07:06 PM   #20
jcandy is offline jcandy  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speakerdoctor View Post
Did you scroll down to post #2? the downloadable file is there. It's a .pdf.
I'd attach the same downloadable file here but it's too large for the diyaudio system to accept.
Got it. Thanks. For some reason the subsequent posts would not display until I clicked on the add
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