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Old 28th September 2010, 06:55 AM   #91
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Default Figures...

Yeah- I gather that much.
Wolf
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Old 28th September 2010, 07:30 AM   #92
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Hang in there Wolf. We serious audio manufacturers take cap sonic differences VERY seriously. Just today, I spoke at length between the audible differences between polystyrene and Teflon with a major cap manufacturer.
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Old 28th September 2010, 08:05 AM   #93
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Here's one of my recent experiences, but 1st, disclaimers. 1. I'm no Golden-Eared Audiofile. More often, I feel like a tin-eared audiofool. However, I discovered years ago that I can indeed hear some differences, for instance among interconnect cables. 2. I believe that EVERY change to a music-reproduction system causes the sound to change, no matter how infintessimally. 3. I believe that the engineers/scientists who claim that if they can't measure a difference, that difference doesn't exist are highly arrogant and not nearly smart enough to admit that they don't know everything.

My experience is with removing a 55uF bank of film caps from the frontend of my Audio Physic Avanti midrange crossovers. These 55s were hi-pass filters thru which ALL of the midrange passed. I jumped them and 'replaced' them with a different hi-pass-filter cap in the poweramps. I heard less grittiness/edgyness and less softness of information, that is, more detail. Years ago I did the same thing with a pair of Eminent Technology ET-8s with the same result--better-sounding music.

No one needs a switchbox or double-blind testing to convince me that capacitors are audible.
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Old 28th September 2010, 08:26 AM   #94
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Quote:
polystyrene and Teflon
I'd like to try those, but usually cannot afford them. The polystyrene, mainly.
Thanks for the vote of confidence, and I will proceed, regardless what others say. I know I can hear it.

Thanks,
Wolf
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Old 28th September 2010, 02:13 PM   #95
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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No problems with proceeding, but now you know some things to be careful about. Any test like this you present to the forum will have a very large audience and therefore come under a lot of scrutiny.

The better you can make the test, the more confidant you can be of the results. You'll never have a perfect test, but at least you now have a better idea of what traps to beware of.
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Old 28th September 2010, 03:03 PM   #96
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr View Post
..... 3. I believe that the engineers/scientists who claim that if they can't measure a difference, that difference doesn't exist are highly arrogant and not nearly smart enough to admit that they don't know everything.

They may not know everything but they know the importance of controlling any test that has a high probability of very subjective (uncontrolled) conclusions. Your conclusions below could be a PERFECT example.


Quote:

My experience is with removing a 55uF bank of film caps from the frontend of my Audio Physic Avanti midrange crossovers. These 55s were hi-pass filters thru which ALL of the midrange passed. I jumped them and 'replaced' them with a different hi-pass-filter cap in the poweramps. I heard less grittiness/edgyness and less softness of information, that is, more detail. Years ago I did the same thing with a pair of Eminent Technology ET-8s with the same result--better-sounding music.



Case in point, your conclusions could be very inaccurate because you did not control your listening test. You have to understand that your brain takes a whole bunch of variables along with the signal from your ears and makes conclusions. Your brain does not use the signal from your ears alone. You have to remove all other variables so that the signal from your ears is pretty well all that is left. Then and only then will your conclusions be accurate.

More detail differences can be shown in measurements, do you know how to do measurements at all? did you try and find the differences in the measurements?

If you have never spent time double checking any conclusions you have from your senses you will never understand what Im posting.


Quote:
No one needs a switchbox or double-blind testing to convince me that capacitors are audible.
You definitely do not need anything to make conclusions day to day but when posting and making bold claims on a forum that has a little science in it maybe you should atleast present conclusions with a little bit more science behind it.

Last edited by doug20; 28th September 2010 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 28th September 2010, 03:12 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by StigErik View Post
The closest thing I've come to facts myself is a blind test. My appologies if this is off topic here.

I made a mod to my Logitech Transporter, bypassing the 100 uF electrolytic caps between the DAC chip and the buffer with a "better" cap. According to myth, it should be better, right? A listening test after the mod confirmed my desires for an improvement. However, a blind A-B test with a unmodified unit showed that there was no audible difference at all.
Yep, all the controlled tests I have seen and done have the same conclusions.

Makes you wonder about those "Other" variables in uncontrolled tests

I think we should be ignoring "Bad quality" caps in any test.
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Old 28th September 2010, 03:30 PM   #98
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Originally Posted by McCormack View Post
In regard to blind/non-blind audio testing, I'm always fascinated by some here on the forum that think that we as humans are so easily swayed and fooled by our own brains that we don't have any self-control over our biases. I wonder if that line of thinking doesn't say more about them and their weaknesses than it does about the population in general?
Well, this has been proved over and over in the science community so until you have something that proves people in general make accurate conclusions without controlling the hidden variables we will stick with the science.

Im amazed you think its a weakness in the science community. Ignorance is bliss. From BOSE owners to the 1 billion $$ bogus weight loss market and 1 billion $$ bogus natural suppliment market...yeah, people definitely have self control over their bias

Im just happy no one like you works in the drug industry. "Don't worry Joe about doing a controlled test, People are very self aware and they would never give us the wrong conclusions. Release the drug next week, its time to make money!!!" Yikes!!

Last edited by doug20; 28th September 2010 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 28th September 2010, 03:32 PM   #99
wjlamp is offline wjlamp  Greece
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreybehr View Post
Here's one of my recent experiences, but 1st, disclaimers. 1. I'm no Golden-Eared Audiofile. More often, I feel like a tin-eared audiofool. However, I discovered years ago that I can indeed hear some differences, for instance among interconnect cables. 2. I believe that EVERY change to a music-reproduction system causes the sound to change, no matter how infintessimally. 3. I believe that the engineers/scientists who claim that if they can't measure a difference, that difference doesn't exist are highly arrogant and not nearly smart enough to admit that they don't know everything.

My experience is with removing a 55uF bank of film caps from the frontend of my Audio Physic Avanti midrange crossovers. These 55s were hi-pass filters thru which ALL of the midrange passed. I jumped them and 'replaced' them with a different hi-pass-filter cap in the poweramps. I heard less grittiness/edgyness and less softness of information, that is, more detail. Years ago I did the same thing with a pair of Eminent Technology ET-8s with the same result--better-sounding music.

No one needs a switchbox or double-blind testing to convince me that capacitors are audible.

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Beware of what you say. Inquisition 's here,and it 's here to stay.

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Old 28th September 2010, 03:37 PM   #100
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Hello Wolf teeth

Have you tried Charge Coupling with capacitors?? JBL has been doing it for about 20 years on their TOTL line speaker systems. What you do is run two capacitors in series with a 2-3 meg resistor tied to the node between the capacitors. The other side of the resistor goes to a 9 volt battery with the battery negative to ground. You effectively DC bias the capacitors.

Something to try if you have not. I use it combined with aguaplassed damped compression drivers and the combination of adding a dampening compound on the diaphrams and biasing the capacitors is a real winner IMHO.

Bypassed and Biased Capacitors

Rob
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