Looking for a small driver similar to the SB12NRX but with an efficiency of 90dB SPL 1W/m or better versus the SB12's ~84dB. And pulling a total blank, though I've found a couple nice five inchers and several sixes. Any suggestions? Application is the mid in a four way nude dipole, target frequency range is 500Hz to 2kHz---I've been planning to use the BG Neo8 but the fairly good front/back wave symmetry John K is getting out of the 10F in the Nao Note has prompted me to check for other options.
I'm not sure if this meets your criteria but Zaph just tested the Scan Speak Discovery 10F/4424G00 and it looks quite nice.
Since John K was using it the 10F was one of the first drivers I checked. However the sensitivity of both variants is a bit under 86.5dB 1W/m. Agree the 8424G00's a stronger candidate than the SB12 based on sensitivity and Rms, but the 10F's unusually low Sd is a bit of a problem---this is visible in bjorno's HR comparison above 150Hz. I agree with Zaph the 10F's more of a three inch driver.
Looking over ScanSpeak's lineup again I suppose I should add the 15M/4624G00 to the list of fivers.
Looking over ScanSpeak's lineup again I suppose I should add the 15M/4624G00 to the list of fivers.
Fostex has a few, 126E and 127E,
ALTEC CF208-8A,
3" driver:
Faital Pro 3FE20.
I'm betting all have some problems with their surrounds, at least when compared to the Scan 10F.
I can vouch for the *sound* of the Altec driver (..but I haven't had access to measurement equipment for some time now). The build quality *looks* fairly decent as well. Again though, I can almost guarantee that it has some issues with the surround.
I'd bet that the Faital Pro's sound is the *least* likely to have problems with it's surround of the grouping, AND I'd bet the subjective impression is *very* detailed - more so that even the Scan 10F.
ALTEC CF208-8A,
3" driver:
Faital Pro 3FE20.
I'm betting all have some problems with their surrounds, at least when compared to the Scan 10F.
I can vouch for the *sound* of the Altec driver (..but I haven't had access to measurement equipment for some time now). The build quality *looks* fairly decent as well. Again though, I can almost guarantee that it has some issues with the surround.
I'd bet that the Faital Pro's sound is the *least* likely to have problems with it's surround of the grouping, AND I'd bet the subjective impression is *very* detailed - more so that even the Scan 10F.
The FE126E and FE127E are discontinued, replaced by the FE126En which has 0.35mm xmax. The FF125K is probably a stronger option, particularly as it lacks the FE whizzer but, like 0.35mm, its 0.15mm xmax is certainly painful for dipole use. Not having any luck digging up the Altec, but the Faital Pro 5FE120 is probably the best set of tradeoffs so far. Thanks. (If I can figure out how to get my hands on one, anyway. 
)
I'll cross to the woofer in the four way before the mid ends up needing too much excursion, but it does need enough xmax to hit 0.5mm or so with good THD/IMD.
)Yup; the motor, too. Just looking for something with good dynamics and where a small amp actually has enough power to drive the thing.
I'll cross to the woofer in the four way before the mid ends up needing too much excursion, but it does need enough xmax to hit 0.5mm or so with good THD/IMD.
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If you don't have a need for a whack of them i have FE127 & FE126. Inuendo from a German distrib (who heard it from the factory) is that the xMax is the same on the FE126En as on the FE126e, but was incorrectly stated in the earlier driver.
FF125 is also discontinued. Rumour (from a different distrib) is that we could see a variation on the FF line but with specs closer to the FExx7 series than the FExx6 series. That doesn't help your project thou.
dave
This driver does look promising, a very compact dedicated midrange with nice sensitivity and a nice price. I found a vendor with a quick search asking US$25 for these. Kind of a goofy mounting flange though, it suggests reverse-mounting for sure.
I got the part number wrong on the Altec..
ALTEC CF404-8A Speakers
http://www.altecpro.com/pdfs/CF404_SS.PDF
Again, sounds pretty good - but probably measures pretty poor. (..I'd purchased it for a radial mid use, and it's pretty good for that.)
Thanks for offering. So far the 5FE120's still in the lead.
Lack of T/S parameters in the datasheet's usually a warning sign. For the price I'd expect decent but unexceptional with the trafo bypassed.
spectrumaudio.de has the T/S in their broadband driver section.
http://www.spectrumaudio.de/
..the 8a doesn't make use of a transformer.
twest, you probably know this, but one of the tricky things about selecting an upper mid is its polar pattern. It is almost impossible to know beforehand, and totally depends on the geometry of the rear of the driver. I measured a number of 3, 4 and 5 inch drivers before I found one with a 'nice' polar. Luckily the need for excursion is fairly limited, as is the need for power handling. Good luck, I'm interested in what you come up with - I like both those faital speakers.
I might add that the place you will run into problems when it comes to power handling is the neo3 tweeter - cross it 3k or higher (which suggests using a smaller upper mid...)
I might add that the place you will run into problems when it comes to power handling is the neo3 tweeter - cross it 3k or higher (which suggests using a smaller upper mid...)
Thanks, 1mm xmax, which is on the low side for this application.
Yep, hence this list building exercise. You're still using W4-1320s?
My listening levels are low enough that's not a problem---typically the Neo3s in my current setup are running hundreds of microwatts RMS, maybe tens of milliwatts if I have things turned up on a trebel heavy piece. So I cross them LR6 at 1.8kHz as that's about as low they'll go before starting to hit distortion problems (I might be able to wring a bit more out of them by fine tuning the equalization).
With a four way I'd like to ease up on that a little, but see no need to go beyond 2kHz LR6. Looking over John K's results for the Nao Note last night, it occurred to me that's in principle low enough to accommodate a well chosen, compact six without much sacrifice in the directivity; reduced distortion from reduced excursion could matter more. Hence sixes and fives are nominally in the running as well as fours, with sixes being kind of interesting as that's the size where vented pole pieces start to appear. (15M/4624G00 and SB17NRXC35-8 are a couple of the more interesting options.)
In my Unbaffled Dipole I'm currently using a Visaton AL170 6.5" midwoofer. It has its first dipole peak around 1.5 khz. I cross it to a Neo3W at about 2 khz (no apparent limits in dynamics or loudness). The Visaton is pretty good as a dipole midrange (better than most of this size), but from 1 khz and up the response at the rear changes in comparison to the response at the front.
The following BMS looks promising to me: http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bm...drivers/neodymium/5_8_12/bms_5n155_t_data.pdf
The following BMS looks promising to me: http://bmsspeakers.com/fileadmin/bm...drivers/neodymium/5_8_12/bms_5n155_t_data.pdf
I'd say the 5N155, 5N160, and 6N160 are all reasonable candidates. The 6N160 is attractive as BMS's minimal and squarish flange should produce an atypically high frequency and broad dipole peak for a sixer, though the distortion on the 5N160 is enough lower it probably more than compensates for the additional excursion required by its lower dipole peak and Sd. Rms unfortunately calculates at 1.44 and 1.6 Ns/m for the 5N160 and 6N160, respectively, and prices are also on the higher end of the range. But I find the 5N160's 93.5dB SPL 1W/m (true 1W, not 2.83V) tempting.
Are these front or rear polars on the AL170? From the datasheet they're about what I'd expect for the front.
I generally operate my amps someplace between unity gain and 10dB attenuation. The intial motivation wasn't protection, but for DIY it has the nice side benefit of making it considerably harder to pop a driver since the amp doesn't want to swing past 10V or so. My power amp project is moving slowly now that it's summertime here in the northern hemisphere, but odds are decent the Neo3s will end up being driven by single ended op amp based power amp channels which won't be able to put more than 6W RMS or so into them.
Those are from the front. Too bad I didn't save the polar from the rear. What I do have is the following:
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
To protect the Neo3W (which btw has 2.5 dB more efficiency than the PDR) with a 22 uF capacitor in front.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
To protect the Neo3W (which btw has 2.5 dB more efficiency than the PDR) with a 22 uF capacitor in front.
Oh, I'm sorry. That's the AL170 from the rear (white-like) and the front (yellowish).
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