I am planing to overlap cross over frequencies. ie mid cutoff at 5Khz and tweeter at 4 Khz. I would be using first order BPF for midrange and second order HPF for Tweeter. My tweeter is fabric dome with ferrofluid. also I am adding L-Pad attenuator for tweeter. and all the drivers are in phase with each other.
I decided the above method after actually summing the response of drivers ( from graph), network and Lpad attenuator. The overall response is close to flat.
Now I request you all to suggest me if there is any hazel in doing this or any spl care is to be taken.
I imagine that when two crossover frequencies are overlapped there could possibly be addition of some distortion ( adding or cancelation due to phase differences ) because of different transient response of drivers, as well of filter used for each driver.
but this is just what I imagine pls correct me.
I decided the above method after actually summing the response of drivers ( from graph), network and Lpad attenuator. The overall response is close to flat.
Now I request you all to suggest me if there is any hazel in doing this or any spl care is to be taken.
I imagine that when two crossover frequencies are overlapped there could possibly be addition of some distortion ( adding or cancelation due to phase differences ) because of different transient response of drivers, as well of filter used for each driver.
but this is just what I imagine pls correct me.
Hi,
What you are saying does not make much sense.
After applying the c/o components each driver has an acoustic response
and it is this, not the crossover components, that determines the filters
(order, frequency and type) that are actually being used.
AFAIK no overlapping topology sums to a flat response, if it does
sum to flat, then it is not acoustically an overlapping topology.
/sreten.
What you are saying does not make much sense.
After applying the c/o components each driver has an acoustic response
and it is this, not the crossover components, that determines the filters
(order, frequency and type) that are actually being used.
AFAIK no overlapping topology sums to a flat response, if it does
sum to flat, then it is not acoustically an overlapping topology.
/sreten.
Then you may actually have a filter with perfectly matching slopes, on the acoustic side
What you think it does on the component side is a different matter
And what you think is 1.order could easily result in 12db, but probably something different, like 8 or 10db, or maybe even 15db
But if mid driver rolls off naturally around there, it could also be 18 or even 24db, or something in between
And probably at a different frequency than you expect
hey, just a teaser
well guys. i ll share datasheet pls suggest me the design.cause I used 3Khz as crossover. the response was not linear. as well while listening i could feel mid vocal was taking back seat. also hi frequencies were not enjoyable. also the higher-mid that appeared from tweeter were not smooth.
3FULLRANGE8E10WSH.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
D21FNRDFP.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
datasheet for tweeter and midrange .
3FULLRANGE8E10WSH.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
D21FNRDFP.pdf - 4shared.com - document sharing - download
datasheet for tweeter and midrange .
Some options, which may be tested even in connection:
- Try padding tweeter down using an L-Pad
- Try even lower crossover frequency (2.3 Khz)
(might be worse due to distorsion of tweeter, but worth a try)
- Try higher crossover >6 Khz
- Try compensating fullrangers voice coil inductance before applying filters
- Try padding tweeter down using an L-Pad
- Try even lower crossover frequency (2.3 Khz)
(might be worse due to distorsion of tweeter, but worth a try)
- Try higher crossover >6 Khz
- Try compensating fullrangers voice coil inductance before applying filters
Overlapping crossover frequencies
I advise you better not to do so. The summed output you will get will not be flat. In other words, you would not get flat response from your midrange + tweeter. (Serious, I tried it before). This also happen (in biamping) when your midrange gain is not equal to your tweeter amp gain.
Never mind, you still can give it a try. If you like the sound then stick to this config or just revert to your old config. Good luck!!
I advise you better not to do so. The summed output you will get will not be flat. In other words, you would not get flat response from your midrange + tweeter.
(Serious, I tried it before). This also happen (in biamping) when your midrange gain is not equal to your tweeter amp gain.Never mind, you still can give it a try. If you like the sound then stick to this config or just revert to your old config. Good luck!!
I have done that before - but my tweeter is a compression driver so that makes a little difference. There is no reason that this cannot work, there is nothing hard and fast about slopes, etc. But I have found the better choice to be 2nd order LP and 1st order HP, because the woofer usually needs 2nd order to ovoid its non-piston region. Many woofers, when they start to break-up, have really peaked responses that take steep slopes to surpress. But 1st order on a small tweeter can be a big problem with power handling, but for home use 1st order to a compression driver is no problem at all.
In a CD system, where the axial response falls at -6 dB/oct, a first order HP is ideal since it flattens the axial response. The HP filter is actually set to about 10 kHz. This yields (approximately) 2nd order acoustic HP to the driver resonance, then flat accoustic response to 10 kHz.
I see no issue with a little overlap in achieving the desired flat frequency response. I have done it many times with no serious consequences.
Speaker design is all about compromise, and the benefits often outweigh the drawbacks..
Also remember an MTM layout has overlap over the majority of the spectrum.
Speaker design is all about compromise, and the benefits often outweigh the drawbacks..
Also remember an MTM layout has overlap over the majority of the spectrum.
I misunderstood the post. I thought that you meant that the M's overlapped with the T. I didn't see that as common. Typical "post" confusion!
Well guys,
@ gedlee - I am using mid and tweeter as a part of satellite speaker. I have finished Subwoofer part. which is active subwoofer with 4order BPF Touch-wood although it took me 3 months to conclude. but its sound is great. had tough time then too. check my posts but here too i ll keep in mind. what u said. Well the reason for using second order filter for tweeter is to prevent it from damage at high volumes. and I decided to use first order BPF for midrange thinking its not so critical. but is worried of phase differences of two types of network.
@ Inductor - thanks for the suggestive diagram. I will get back to you after I execute the design. So can you pls enlighten me with thought process behind this design? how did you decide
Crossover frequency ?
Guys actually I used X-over from other friend of mine ( licences issue ) I am attaching its pdf. pls go through it , and comment.
@ gedlee - I am using mid and tweeter as a part of satellite speaker. I have finished Subwoofer part. which is active subwoofer with 4order BPF Touch-wood although it took me 3 months to conclude. but its sound is great. had tough time then too. check my posts
but here too i ll keep in mind. what u said. Well the reason for using second order filter for tweeter is to prevent it from damage at high volumes. and I decided to use first order BPF for midrange thinking its not so critical. but is worried of phase differences of two types of network.@ Inductor - thanks for the suggestive diagram. I will get back to you after I execute the design. So can you pls enlighten me with thought process behind this design? how did you decide
Crossover frequency ?
Guys actually I used X-over from other friend of mine ( licences issue ) I am attaching its pdf. pls go through it , and comment.
Yeah, do it. Speakers need more tweeter power than they usually get. Not a lot of basic content in that range but it will make for delightful guitar sounds and bells will sound properly metalic, if you play stuff that isn't to pop-processed. If you play the stuff HK uses for test panels, your system will sound too bright.... just guessing.
I just finished to listen to "Origins of Gospel" .What a pain ....well ,depends on program material ,and I was lucky .
Setting was dual 6,5" in isobarick (first order filter but very high order acoustical ,due to little box design),1" dome crossed at 2,5 KHz ,a 3" closed back midrange ,being on the top of the box,above the tweeter ,a little tilted upward .(Normally) 2nd order crossed and in positive phase . The mid overlapped the other two bands (I put a 4,7 ohm resistor before the speaker)
Some choirs produced some interferences ,but some trumpets were great !
Being also an old recording ,it was very forgiving to my bad setting ..same-same
Tomorrow I'll reverse polarity and see ,,,
Setting was dual 6,5" in isobarick (first order filter but very high order acoustical ,due to little box design),1" dome crossed at 2,5 KHz ,a 3" closed back midrange ,being on the top of the box,above the tweeter ,a little tilted upward .(Normally) 2nd order crossed and in positive phase . The mid overlapped the other two bands (I put a 4,7 ohm resistor before the speaker)
Some choirs produced some interferences ,but some trumpets were great !
Being also an old recording ,it was very forgiving to my bad setting ..same-same
Tomorrow I'll reverse polarity and see ,,,
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