could someone please help with a 2 way crossover design? TIA!!

[terry j]

Hi guys.

I will 'fess up straight away, I am an active guy. Which means I could not design a passive crossover to save my life.

So I am asking for a quick design if someone could oblige.

Background. I want to do an experiment with my system, and simply want to cross the tweeter to the mid.

The tweeter is a morel et338-104, the morel pdf seems a bit light on data tho! here is what madisound list for it, hope it is sufficient. https://www.madisound.com/store/prod...oducts_id=8195

The mid is a PHL 1360. arrgghh, am having a lot of trouble finding the parameters for it to give you. Evidently they are similar to the 1260 if that helps. I hope one of you 'hoarders' out there have the parameters stored in a database!

I can if it would help post the measurements of them.

I currently cross them at 2800, and the main idea would be to protect the tweeter really, so suficient slope to do that. I am not worried about topology, whatever works. Well, I guess I am against first order! The top of the PHL can be a bit scratchy I think. Hard to remember, I usually cross it at 96 db slopes. Phase yada yada will be handled, so that aspect does not fit in as a problem which crossover to decide on.

Then again, I am just blithering cause I don't really know enough about it! So will answer questions only. (is 48 too much??)

What I am going to do (I assume most would have an idea of what the dcx is and does). I don't use the dcx but a much better unit, but this is just to explain.

Rather than having an output to each, I want to try 'combining' the two drivers together with the passive, then measuring and correcting the two as a unit. Ie one output does both, and frees an output for use elsewhere.

Is there any other data you need from me? I will try and find the parameters of the 1360, if worst comes to worst I know someone who has a driver, and presumably he can run it thru his tester whatever it is, spits out all the parameters for you.

Thanks for reading.

[terry j]

ORCA Design & Manufacturing

this should be close enough? It is the 16 ohm version of the 1360. I hope the only thing that substantially changes is the resistance, but I don't know.

OOH! just found one. same place. Hmm, I did a google search on 1360, it sent me to the 1370 yet did not pick up on the same sire they had the 1360. Odd.

http://www.orcadesign.com/products/phl/1360.htm

[Moondog55]

Terry I'm not going to offer beginners advice on a driver that expensive, I just want to know what the finished use will be??

How are the Frankenfellas going???

Almost always a second order on a tweeter, if Fs is at 700 then at least 1500 but better 2100Hz, I can't give any better beginners advice than to ask for a more expert opinion but a waterfall plot of the woofer would help them a lot

Regards
Ted

[terry j]

haha, that's a BIG secret for now Ted. But preliminary experiments are, hmm, astounding.

Thinking of changing the name of the franks, all will be revealed at the bathurst gtg. You in this year??

Waterfall, that would only be of interest at the bottom end would it not? If it is being crossed around 2800, does it matter?? I too know nothing of passive network design.

If this experiment works, and don't see why not, then a rebuild of the baffle will be required.

hey, ain't it lucky I had the foresight (insert maniacal laughter >here<) to make it a detachable baffle hahaha.

Nahh, just damn good luck.

[picowallspeaker]

Interesting driver ,yes . Seeing that a man from a german reseller of PHL has just joined the forum makes me happy ,too .
As for waterfalls , I think they're quite useful from start to end , if well done ,which may be difficult ,being ambient dependant ....
A natural decay slope towards the end (HF) would be always welcomed.
For the tw/Xo problem , I guess Moondog has many resources and has already
some calculations in process for you ,right ?

[jerome69]

Hi Terry !
I understand you want to make a passive crossover for a PHL 1360 and a morel et338-104.

First you must make the right box 15L@60Hz. It is very important.

If you can do gated measurement for SPL and impedance , you can succeed in doing a good crossover.

Second the recommended crossover frequency is 3kHz. I suppose LR4, means 24dB slope. In this case, based on my experience it might be a 12dB electrical for the woofer and a 18dB electrical for the tweeter.
If it is a bookshelf +3dB baffle step compensation, but a standmount +6dB baffle step compensation.
I usually see these values, for a standmount woofer (8ohms) L~2/2.2mH (less baffle step, lower value ~1mH) C~6.8-15uF Tweeter (8ohms) C1~4.7uF L~0.22mH C2~ 10-15uF and a LPAD after or more simple a resistance before the tweeter crossover.

Hope this helps.

[Moondog55]

Sorry Terry but I have taken a job at Falls Creek for the ski season now that I am recovered from the surgery, I need to put some money back into the household.

Picowall I have nothing in the way of expertise to offer Terry, just ballpark guesses, these PHL need a little more than a close approximation I think

[terry j]

ok, first off thanks for responding.

Ted, my eldest daughter is now a ski instructor, last year was her first year. Just headed back down last week for the new season, of course she is not in vic, but at smiggins (perisher). She just had to resit a test at Mt Buller, I'd better see how she went!

Thanks for reminding me how to be a good dad! When does the season finish? Around that time ain't it?

Anyway, yet again we'll put it on the backburner and 'make plans for next year' eh??!!

Hahaha, thanks jerome and pico...a bit of national pride coming thru seein as how you both are french??

And so you should be proud, I gotta say I love PHL drivers. I did not want to bore anyone with too much detail, but I see I should expand a little, I may have given you a bum steer.

(moondog, this has gotta stay a secret yeah? It's a surprise for the next gtg, well at least as I am banned from the forum they don't know yet. Ain't we lucky the internet is such a secure place? They'll never find out)

Here is a link to my speaker build. Don't particularly read it, but you can have a glance at the second page and see the set up. (it is boring, there is one guy on there who writes these bloody long posts...ignore him)

Frankenstein becomes cindarella..I hope!

That mid driver is different to this one, and IIRC I blew those tweeters up!! At the bloody gtg!! One day we got out of them, then silence for the rest of the weekend.

Anyway, brett (from this forum) has lent me a bunch of gear. I run a deqx unit to control the lot. I have just gotten a second deqx, so I can run subs as well.

One of the things I borrowed off brett was a pair of ten inch mids, some AE model. Just for a look see, I built a smallish box and mounted the tens on top of the cabinets you see in the thread, in effect turned it into a four way.

I cannot swear on the forum, but the improvement was beyond belief. Holy ^%@**#$ing (&%#* !!!!!!

I am now looking at a ten inch PHL, and will need to rebuild the front baffle to incorporate the ten. As I mentioned before, luckily it just unbolts.

So there is the background, it is not a 2 way as such, tho it is a crossover between a mid and tweeter. If I put the passive network in there, those two drivers can be measured and corrected as a single unit by the deqx, so what would normally take two outputs now only takes one.

That measn I acn run the four way using only three outputs from the first deqx unit, and still have the outputs from the second to run distributed subs.

Sorry for the long windedness, but I could see you needed that extra data.

I will be crossing to the 1360 from the ten at around 6,7,800 hz or so, and running it up to around 2800 and cross to the tweeter. (which was why I wondered about the worth of the waterfall)

In any case, I can get a waterfall if needed, but it will be in room. Can always close mic it I guess.

So, I am basically an active speaker guy, but for this one project/experiment I don't particularly want to become an analog crossover expert, if you follow.

A good enough 'on paper' design from a good program or whatever should be pretty close. Any phase anomalies or frequency response aberrations will be corrected by the deqx anyway. I mean I don't want the deqx to have to do a huge job correcting a terrible crossover, but you get what I mean.

Jerome, maybe all of this changes your points? For example, I mucked up my box size estimates and am pretty tight on the volume. The mid chamber at the moment is around 6-8 litres or so, and I have to shoehorn in a chamber for the ten (should get away with around ten litres), all of which then takes away from the volume for the 18s. So they will now be running in a smaller cabinet, but that is offset by me running four subs, ie it does not need to go so low anymore.

But, I would like to keep the mid chamber (and the ten chamber) as small as possible.

mmmm, distributed subs...mmmm plus a four way, grrrrrooahhow pant pant..

I can 'easily' change/build a new baffle...be buggered if I am building new boxes!!!

I should have said all this in the initial post, sorry about that.

EDIT ONE french guy and one italian (?) guy. mixed my flags up, and still not sure if I am right haha

[Brett]

I'll reply via email tomorrow. Just did 14hrs and want to relax.

[Moondog55]

Well from the money POV I want the ski season finish as late as possible; but early October is normal, maybe CC and I can make it.