After stuffing around for months I've finally decided to call my dipoles finished. I may get a professional to do fancy side panels, but for now that's it.
Thanks to all for advice and help.
The latest iteration is here:
http://www.doddsy.net/steve6_014.htm
Cheers
Steve
Thanks to all for advice and help.
The latest iteration is here:
http://www.doddsy.net/steve6_014.htm
Cheers
Steve
They look really interesting Steve. Many congratulations. Fancy side panels might be nice but we're here first and foremost for the sound.
So, how do they sound? Did your Theory work - have you stopped the top from vibrating?
Have you listened extensively to Dipoles before and how would you characterize the main differences to conventional designs?
Steve
So, how do they sound? Did your Theory work - have you stopped the top from vibrating?
Have you listened extensively to Dipoles before and how would you characterize the main differences to conventional designs?
Steve
I used to own Martin Logan CLS, and also Genesis V speakers which are dipoles, and I've heard the Audio Artistry Beethovens so I know and like dipole sound.
I'm biased, but I think these sound better than any of those except maybe the Beethovens.
I like the airiness and naturalness of a good dipole, and dipole bass can't be beat.
As for the vibrations, yes, there is much less. The old bafflaes would rock and flex, partly due to the thin side pillars. These don't. If it doesn't sound better I will convince myself that it does.
Cheers
Steve
I'm biased, but I think these sound better than any of those except maybe the Beethovens.
I like the airiness and naturalness of a good dipole, and dipole bass can't be beat.
As for the vibrations, yes, there is much less. The old bafflaes would rock and flex, partly due to the thin side pillars. These don't. If it doesn't sound better I will convince myself that it does.
Cheers
Steve
congrats indeed steve-o...because of you and chops i have officially gone head first into my dipole project...although i took a slightly different route for the subs, my project will be quite similar in some aspects...so here is what i am down to...
essentially a sub playing from 100 or 90hz and below...they are these models from parts express...
i just received them two days ago (4 of them) and i am already ready to get startedhttp://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...3&St3=-45777379&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7573&DID=7
mids are undecided...i cannot stop thinking about this guys and i hope you can maybe help me out...ive narrowed it down to these drivers
ss 18s/8535
accuton c92-6
ss 18w/4531g
phl 1220 or 1340
any suggestions on this are greatly appreciated...they are needed to play from 90 or 100 hz to about 1500-1700 hz...i will fiddle with crossovers when the driverack gets here...
tweeter will be ss 9500...i am so pleased with this tweeter that i couldnt ask for anything else for this price range...which mid would integrate best with these
processor is driverack pa...i just bought one last week and it is in the mail so equalization shouldnt be a big task for low q drivers
amps will be audiosource units...i figure 3 of the model ones for now will get me by...any other alternatives in this price range will be greatly appreciated... if we need to start another post i can do that...let me know what you guys think
essentially a sub playing from 100 or 90hz and below...they are these models from parts express...
i just received them two days ago (4 of them) and i am already ready to get startedhttp://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...3&St3=-45777379&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=7573&DID=7
mids are undecided...i cannot stop thinking about this guys and i hope you can maybe help me out...ive narrowed it down to these drivers
ss 18s/8535
accuton c92-6
ss 18w/4531g
phl 1220 or 1340
any suggestions on this are greatly appreciated...they are needed to play from 90 or 100 hz to about 1500-1700 hz...i will fiddle with crossovers when the driverack gets here...
tweeter will be ss 9500...i am so pleased with this tweeter that i couldnt ask for anything else for this price range...which mid would integrate best with these
processor is driverack pa...i just bought one last week and it is in the mail so equalization shouldnt be a big task for low q drivers
amps will be audiosource units...i figure 3 of the model ones for now will get me by...any other alternatives in this price range will be greatly appreciated... if we need to start another post i can do that...let me know what you guys think
Thanks for the nice words.
I'm not familiar personally with any of the midranges, although they all have fine reputations.
The question would be how suitable any of them are when used as dipole down to 100Hz or so. The problem is the size and xmax limiting the amount of volume once you apply dipole EQ.
I would think from my experience that one a side would not be enough and two still marginal.
That's why Linkwitz recommend 8 inch drivers and I doubled up mine. So I'd suggest the 8 inch variants of the above drivers, the Seas W22, or the HiVi M8a.
Good luck
Steve
I'm not familiar personally with any of the midranges, although they all have fine reputations.
The question would be how suitable any of them are when used as dipole down to 100Hz or so. The problem is the size and xmax limiting the amount of volume once you apply dipole EQ.
I would think from my experience that one a side would not be enough and two still marginal.
That's why Linkwitz recommend 8 inch drivers and I doubled up mine. So I'd suggest the 8 inch variants of the above drivers, the Seas W22, or the HiVi M8a.
Good luck
Steve
Well, dipoles start to have a following...
Good luck mating the accuton with the 9500
! ! Would be keenly interested in the crossover "fiddling" you promised
.
Why not consider an ATC 75-150 dome mid?
I'm looking into a project (project 10 ) featuring this & a 234 for mids, & a raven OR visaton tweet. Subwoof separate, a la Linkwitz / Steve / and you.
Will post about this when I get my act together (and my funds in order )... a number of things are bugging me, not least being the vibrational aspect of hanging ~55pds of drivers on an open baffle...
Not to mention the subwoof of at least 80 l pulsating to the tunes of another 50-60pds 15" driver...
Good luck mating the accuton with the 9500
! ! Would be keenly interested in the crossover "fiddling" you promised .Why not consider an ATC 75-150 dome mid?
I'm looking into a project (project 10 ) featuring this & a 234 for mids, & a raven OR visaton tweet. Subwoof separate, a la Linkwitz / Steve / and you.
Will post about this when I get my act together (and my funds in order
)... a number of things are bugging me, not least being the vibrational aspect of hanging ~55pds of drivers on an open baffle...Not to mention the subwoof of at least 80 l pulsating to the tunes of another 50-60pds 15" driver...
Hey nice work!
Once you tried open baffles you don´t go back to boxes. -One of the ten DIY-commandments. I to am a bit "Linkwitzified". I'm currently going för the Phoenix approach with separate subs & high/mid. I'm still in the prototype stage...
A pic:
I'm using Scan-speak 9300 tweters, Vifa XT18WH09 6,5"mids (gonna buy 2 more tho) & MDS Fanatic 12" carwoofers.
cheers
/Per
Once you tried open baffles you don´t go back to boxes. -One of the ten DIY-commandments. I to am a bit "Linkwitzified". I'm currently going för the Phoenix approach with separate subs & high/mid. I'm still in the prototype stage...
A pic:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm using Scan-speak 9300 tweters, Vifa XT18WH09 6,5"mids (gonna buy 2 more tho) & MDS Fanatic 12" carwoofers.
cheers
/Per
I, too, will eventually be jumping on the dipole bandwagon--thanks to Steve's convincing and entertaining website (just a matter of time/finances before plunging in). Before I do, I just had a thought I'd like to share:
What about using long strips of marble or granite for the side panels (glued with plenty of liquid nails adhesive) to help keep all those drivers from vibrating? It might not be easy or inexpensive but I bet you the results would be sonically worthwhile as well as eye-catching.
Maybe Linkwitz's panel bracing is also a good idea afterall--despite the beautiful simplicity of Steve's designs.
Jeff in Hawaii (now using sealed-concrete Dynaudio's w/Linaeum tweets sitting on top)
What about using long strips of marble or granite for the side panels (glued with plenty of liquid nails adhesive) to help keep all those drivers from vibrating? It might not be easy or inexpensive but I bet you the results would be sonically worthwhile as well as eye-catching.
Maybe Linkwitz's panel bracing is also a good idea afterall--despite the beautiful simplicity of Steve's designs.
Jeff in Hawaii (now using sealed-concrete Dynaudio's w/Linaeum tweets sitting on top)
I really wish the Orion design didn't involve building that huge custom equalizer. I don't have the skills to tackle something like that and if I bought the pre-made one I'de have to buy the whole set that it is made for, and I just can't afford that.
Maybe I should make it my life goal to figure out a way to get the same effect without the EQ. As if I could figure that out if Linkwitz couldn't.
Maybe I should make it my life goal to figure out a way to get the same effect without the EQ. As if I could figure that out if Linkwitz couldn't.
SL has an inexpensive design on his page. It uses Vifa drivers and a passive XO so you only need one amp.
http://linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm
http://linkwitzlab.com/proto.htm
I've built the Linkwitz prototypes. They sound really good, but they're not full range speakers without addition of the woofers.
http://home.comcast.net/~dreite/PMTM1/Linkwitz_PMTM1_Dipole_Prototype.htm
Also, replying to a previous post.....I can build a crossover for the Phoenix/Orion setup if someone needs it. I have built quite a few already.
Email if interested. dreite@comcast.net
Cheers,
Davey.
http://home.comcast.net/~dreite/PMTM1/Linkwitz_PMTM1_Dipole_Prototype.htm
Also, replying to a previous post.....I can build a crossover for the Phoenix/Orion setup if someone needs it. I have built quite a few already.
Email if interested. dreite@comcast.net
Cheers,
Davey.
I’m in the process of picking my way through the Linkwitz Lab site and must confess I find the arguments presented highly convincing. While I’ve listened to many electrostatics, I haven’t heard many dipoles, indeed the only one to come to mind were the Wisdoms (which I found dreadful). However one of the most amazing speakers I have come across is the MBL Radialstrahler http://www.mbl-hifi.com/products/mbl101d_en.htm ; it’s on quite a different level. The MBL speakers are omni-directional.
Given that designers of infinite baffle speakers or bass reflex (sometimes I think reflux would be more appropriate. Burp!) go to extraordinary efforts to control the backwave, the dipole theory seems to contradict much of this conventional “wisdom”. From those of you who have built these dipole designs, what have you found in terms of practical considerations? I notice that Linkwitz suggests a reasonably “live” room, is this configuration particularly sensitive to room acoustics?
I must admit I am sceptical by nature and wonder why, if such a simple design is so effective, it isn’t used more often.
Cheers,
Pete
Given that designers of infinite baffle speakers or bass reflex (sometimes I think reflux would be more appropriate. Burp!) go to extraordinary efforts to control the backwave, the dipole theory seems to contradict much of this conventional “wisdom”. From those of you who have built these dipole designs, what have you found in terms of practical considerations? I notice that Linkwitz suggests a reasonably “live” room, is this configuration particularly sensitive to room acoustics?
I must admit I am sceptical by nature and wonder why, if such a simple design is so effective, it isn’t used more often.
Cheers,
Pete
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