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Old 16th May 2010, 05:28 PM   #11
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Good that you're using the software

It must be said, that it's an incredibly flat simmed response. My speakers are nowhere near that... Still, it's sound is a different matter.

I'd agree that the first crossover is better, but for other reasons...
First thing I noticed - the woofer is contributing less further up, meaning there's a lower chance you'll hear the inevitable break-up from the aluminium cone.
The response also looks a little smoother over the cross-over region.
The phase on the first one has a similar curve for both woofer and tweeter, so you won't have any problems with cancellation.

Hope it all goes well
Chris
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Old 16th May 2010, 05:44 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
First thing I noticed - the woofer is contributing less further up, meaning there's a lower chance you'll hear the inevitable break-up from the aluminium cone.
Let's see if he can live with that... (nasty and it's still there.)

mondogenerator, did you give the final dimensions, on the software, for the speakers, location of port, and the front baffle dimensions and drivers positions?

Last edited by Inductor; 16th May 2010 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 16th May 2010, 07:33 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
It must be said, that it's an incredibly flat simmed response. My speakers are nowhere near that... Still, it's sound is a different matter.....
It is impressively flat, only downside is that the smoothing is 12th octave (i think), and also that i offset the tweeter to reduce the baffle ripple above 5k. However i neglected to measure, and realised my offset is impractical...

When reset to centre position the response is still within +/- 2db though, so i may use a smaller offset, and live with the small ripple. After all im planning to use felt on the baffle around the tweeter to 'blur' the baffle edges a little, and i think this will help with the ripple also.

Soundwise, I am impressed with the test box i have been using for several months, and the crossover that is shown here. it sounds balanced and no unwanted emphases. If i were to pick fault with any of it, i would say that i could perhaps do with 1 MAYBE 2dB less BSC, but I think its to be expected since i have the boxes about 3" from the rear wall, and i really should change that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
....The response also looks a little smoother over the cross-over region.
The phase on the first one has a similar curve for both woofer and tweeter, so you won't have any problems with cancellation.

Hope it all goes well
Chris
Thats exactly my take on the phase response, since the tweeter is not reverse phased it surprises me a little since im used to butterworth curves and the hump or dip thats produced, depending on driver phasing

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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
Let's see if he can live with that... (nasty and it's still there.)
lol yes the breakup never goes away, however, with the notch i added to the crossover, combined with the LP rolloff, it is attenuated some 25-30dB depending on where you take the measure, so im fairly happy it wont mar the result until i get to 100dBs. And to be fair i doubt i will since the design is only about 84dB/W and i have a 30W amp..

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Originally Posted by Inductor View Post
mondogenerator, did you give the final dimensions, on the software, for the speakers, location of port, and the front baffle dimensions and drivers positions?
Yes. I used the final driver positions, baffle dimension, bevel on Boxsim to calculate the results. However my german isnt all that great and I am not sure how to input the port position, or indeed IF you can. There are a wealth of options which i still dont understand, even after Chris's Boxsim Tutorial. Which was great, and further than i could get alone. If i could read german fluently, then im sure there are many more things i could include to improve the sim.
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Last edited by mondogenerator; 16th May 2010 at 07:37 PM.
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Old 16th May 2010, 07:37 PM   #14
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Foil inductors are superior to wire coil type. I recommend that you bypass any electrolytic capacitors you use with polystyrene, polypropylene or mica caps, unless you want to use non-electrolytics.
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Old 16th May 2010, 07:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
Foil inductors are superior to wire coil type. I recommend that you bypass any electrolytic capacitors you use with polystyrene, polypropylene or mica caps, unless you want to use non-electrolytics.
Foil inductors are superior IF you think that 'skin effect' is something to worry about in a LP filter, or are after super low DCR. In my application 1mm ferrite cored inductors are perfectly adequate, and the 12 gauge Alphacore foils i have showed no audible difference.

As for caps....well i have not/would not use electrolytics anyway---unless forced by situation...i.e. midrange BP

All caps are polyester film/polypropylene film 1000V rated or above
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Old 16th May 2010, 08:28 PM   #16
doug20 is offline doug20  United States
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Originally Posted by 7n7is View Post
Foil inductors are superior to wire coil type.
I have never seen actually data that proved this. Could you point out the link for these conclusions?
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Old 17th May 2010, 12:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post
...I used the final driver positions, baffle dimension, bevel on Boxsim to calculate the results. However my german isnt all that great and I am not sure how to input the port position, or indeed IF you can. There are a wealth of options which i still dont understand, even after Chris's Boxsim Tutorial. Which was great, and further than i could get alone. If i could read german fluently, then im sure there are many more things i could include to improve the sim.
You can use this translation (1, 2) for Port location, front or back, on the dimensions menu. And (3) for tweeter (closed back driver, I think), on the drivers menu. German is not my language.
Attached Images
File Type: gif port-tweeter TRANSLATION for Boxsim.gif (14.3 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Inductor; 17th May 2010 at 12:02 AM.
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