Thinking about two way mains for home music and home theater. I can add subs later but for the moment would like to make the most out of the two way for both music and movies. I have a DEQX HDP 3.0 that I use but currently have only one amplifier (Atmasphere S-30) so I'm torn between building a passive two way (using the DEQX to correct and equalize the whole speaker), or getting another amp (probably something bigger for the GPA604 or TD15M) and using the DEQX to its full capability.
I'd like to use the TD15M or GPA604 as low as realistically possible. 115db is more than enough in my 22'x36' listening room which has 8' ceilings and opens through the back of the room to the side into an open area kitchen and adjacent living room so I'm not sure I'll get a lot of rm gain. Listening position is 10'-11'. Speakers would have approx 5.5' from front of speaker to rear wall. Seems from other posts either can go into low 30's or high 20's using either ported or PR alignments. I can build a fairly big box but my only limitation is that one side of the box will be within 2-4 inches of an AV cabinet between the speakers so using opposing PRs may not work.
For the high frequency portion of the TD15M I'm thinking of using a Beyma TPL-150H or Beyma CP-385/Nd with suitable waveguide as a second choice and I'm open to other suggestions.
Love to get some suggestions for enclosure and alignment as well as best option for the high frequency section and xover points for the TD-15M.
Thanks for any info
I'd like to use the TD15M or GPA604 as low as realistically possible. 115db is more than enough in my 22'x36' listening room which has 8' ceilings and opens through the back of the room to the side into an open area kitchen and adjacent living room so I'm not sure I'll get a lot of rm gain. Listening position is 10'-11'. Speakers would have approx 5.5' from front of speaker to rear wall. Seems from other posts either can go into low 30's or high 20's using either ported or PR alignments. I can build a fairly big box but my only limitation is that one side of the box will be within 2-4 inches of an AV cabinet between the speakers so using opposing PRs may not work.
For the high frequency portion of the TD15M I'm thinking of using a Beyma TPL-150H or Beyma CP-385/Nd with suitable waveguide as a second choice and I'm open to other suggestions.
Love to get some suggestions for enclosure and alignment as well as best option for the high frequency section and xover points for the TD-15M.
Thanks for any info
As for the TD15M, here is some recommendations, not all my words, but what I remember when someone else asked a similar question about this driver.
The TD15M would require a fairly large vented box if you plan to get low with it. If you plan to go without a sub-woofer you'll need a larger box. You'll also be limited in the lowest output but for a music only system you'll be fine. Around 4.5-5 cubic foot tuned in the 32-35hz range would work well. It gives a little bit of a shelved off response to the low end that matches well with room gain. I think you'd be quite good in room to 30hz.
Then if you plan on a sub-woofer also, try tuning to the 45hz range. This will do a few things. It will give you back some efficiency in the 45-80hz range and keep the response nearly flat to under 50hz. That gives you plenty of room to play with the xover to the sub from 60-80hz. It also puts any rise in group delay down low enough that it has little effect on the useable range.
The TD15M would require a fairly large vented box if you plan to get low with it. If you plan to go without a sub-woofer you'll need a larger box. You'll also be limited in the lowest output but for a music only system you'll be fine. Around 4.5-5 cubic foot tuned in the 32-35hz range would work well. It gives a little bit of a shelved off response to the low end that matches well with room gain. I think you'd be quite good in room to 30hz.
Then if you plan on a sub-woofer also, try tuning to the 45hz range. This will do a few things. It will give you back some efficiency in the 45-80hz range and keep the response nearly flat to under 50hz. That gives you plenty of room to play with the xover to the sub from 60-80hz. It also puts any rise in group delay down low enough that it has little effect on the useable range.
See my thread here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/141320-beyma-tpl-150-lambda-td12ms.html
We are still loving these as mains at our studio, but did NOT like the TPL used under about 1.5KHz. Your opinion or use may vary. The TD12's were perfectly happy that high and John has always said that he prefers the 15s over the 12s. Maybe you should use the horn loaded version of the TPL to help match dispersion at crossover better.
Greg - technician - Phat Planet Recording Studios - Orlando Florida - Audiophile Quality Recording, Mixing, Mastering, Production
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/141320-beyma-tpl-150-lambda-td12ms.html
We are still loving these as mains at our studio, but did NOT like the TPL used under about 1.5KHz. Your opinion or use may vary. The TD12's were perfectly happy that high and John has always said that he prefers the 15s over the 12s. Maybe you should use the horn loaded version of the TPL to help match dispersion at crossover better.
Greg - technician - Phat Planet Recording Studios - Orlando Florida - Audiophile Quality Recording, Mixing, Mastering, Production
Thanks Greg. Yes, thinking that the TPL-150H horn version would mate better lower, as response graph shows a little fill below 2K. Did you try anything else interesting besides the TPL-150?
Thanks tomcat. AE did suggest a ported box would play fairly low in 9 cu. ft. tuned to 28Hz would only go to 120 db 1M - more than enough in my room.
Love to hear from anyone that may know how the TD-15M/TPL-150H combo would compare to the GPA-604.
Looks like an interesting project.
The real story is in the polar response of the TD-15 and the Beyma TPL-150 and how well they match with each other.
2-ways with a 15" driver are very hard to get a satisfactory off-axis response throughout the full frequency range. Geddes' 2-ways are a good exception by employing a horn (waveguide) to control off-axis response and match the two drivers.
I don't know of any real data out there that will tell you if they will work and you probably will need to build a prototype and test it to see if it will work.
That's an expensive prototype, but the only way you will really know for sure unless someone has done this and will share their on and off-axis response data.
The real story is in the polar response of the TD-15 and the Beyma TPL-150 and how well they match with each other.
2-ways with a 15" driver are very hard to get a satisfactory off-axis response throughout the full frequency range. Geddes' 2-ways are a good exception by employing a horn (waveguide) to control off-axis response and match the two drivers.
I don't know of any real data out there that will tell you if they will work and you probably will need to build a prototype and test it to see if it will work.
That's an expensive prototype, but the only way you will really know for sure unless someone has done this and will share their on and off-axis response data.
How about the GPA 902 driver mated to some type of waveguide instead of the Beyma? Then you would sort of have a quasi Altec M19 of sorts
Thanks - interesting driver. I did a quick search on the GPA-902 and from what I've read initially it costs more and while it looks like a great driver there were no clear conclusions. Any specific info you could point to?
I had a pair of Heil speakers when I was in high school that really sounded great - never should have sold them. Yes, polar response is something I'm worried about. The horn that comes with the TPL-150H controls horizontal directivity to a constant 80 degrees at -6db from approx 1.2kHz through the top of its range. Vertical response is another story varying greatly over the whole range but in what looks like a consistent fashion.
Anything that can be concluded from the directivity info here?
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/TPL150HE.pdf
Only that I've read that some think it is a very fine driver etc.. I had a quote a few weeks back, and for the GPA 902-8a was quoted $202 USD per driver..
Perhaps talk with John from AE and ask what he thinks mates well with his LF drivers?
You might be able to tell if it they are not worth buying the drivers, but you can't depend on manufacture's data to tell if drivers are really going to be compatible. You have to measure them yourself.
First choice was the Fountek Neopro5. Had some kind of nasty resonance around 1-2KHz. Even using it about 4Khz with steep filters, it sounded very forward not at all natural. Then moved on to a Beyma 380 compression driver on a conical waveguide. This was much better than the Fountek, but still not what we were looking for. Most main monitors use some compression driver, so I was looking for something different and hopefully "better". It came down to the larger Raal and the TPL. TPL was cheaper with our direct account AND seemed more bulletproof for daily use in a studio setting. I am playing the newest Pat Metheny disc on them as I type this....sounds great!
Yes, the Beyma TPLs are very directional above about 6 KHz, but the engineer is right in line with the middle of the sweet spot, so he is good. We figured that if anything, the limited dispersion would help with "console bounce" and in a well treated room, I'm not so sure that even power response is quite as important as a typical home setting where there is generally too much sound reflecting around all over the place.
If JJ @ Acoustic Elegance ever gets his butt in gear and releases the TD6 and TD8's, I'll be doing a 3 way with one of those as mids and the Raal on top for myself. Already got the Digmoda amps a few weeks ago and they seem pretty good so far.
Greg
I trust you will be tri-amping or bi-amping that 3-way? I would love to give the TD-15 a spin in a 3-way, but the extended upper end of that woofer really demands a very, very sharp slope on the filter and that gets both tricky and expensive with a passive design.
Bi-amping, at a minimum, would be the best way out of that dilemma. The specs on the TD-15 are very good.
Yes, the Digmoda unit I got is the 552, three way amp/dsp module. I'm pretty much done forever with passives for anything other than small, 2 way monitors. Active just allows so much flexibility that it is worth the extra $ IMHO.
Greg
Oh yeah, I forgot to post this:
Driver Measurements (drivervault)
See here for some tests of the Lambda 12 and 15" drivers and one of a GPA12" for comparison. The TDM's don't do so well in the lowest octave or so, but from 80Hz on up, they are some of the best out there. Super clean sounding. Upright bass through our mains is just spot on and super defined.
Greg
Driver Measurements (drivervault)
See here for some tests of the Lambda 12 and 15" drivers and one of a GPA12" for comparison. The TDM's don't do so well in the lowest octave or so, but from 80Hz on up, they are some of the best out there. Super clean sounding. Upright bass through our mains is just spot on and super defined.
Greg
I do not have that luxury because I wanted to use a tube amp that I built. At some point I will probably build a second one and bi-amp, but until then I need to rely on a passive network and the TD-15 is not going to work, so I am sticking with my JBL 2235Hs for now.
Only that I've read that some think it is a very fine driver etc.. I had a quote a few weeks back, and for the GPA 902-8a was quoted $202 USD per driver..
Perhaps talk with John from AE and ask what he thinks mates well with his LF drivers?
I have mated the TD12M with the QSC HPR152i waveguide/BMS4550 CD. Im still working out the best XO right now.
I was going to try the RAAL 140-15D ribbon. It can be XOed at 1600 (4th order LR), 1600 Hz is a good XO point for the TD15m.
RAAL 140-15D Ribbon Tweeter (with optional Amorphous Core) from Madisound
I have tried the Neopro5i with the TD12Ms but I need a mid range in between.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.