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Old 17th June 2003, 10:00 PM   #1
GeorgeJ is offline GeorgeJ  Canada
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Default What Front Horn to build?

After years of chasing the elusive and blowing money, I have come full circle and going back to horns. Iíve concluded (to my ears) that nothing beats moving large amounts of air with ease.

Iíd be grateful for any advice regarding building a quality front horn system perhaps along the lines of the Edgarhorn slim line.
I am after power, slam and dynamics of course, but I cannot deal with harshness and brightness. Single driver and/or 1st order preferable but not indispensable. Compression Drivers and co-ax could be considered. Budget in the $1200 to $1500 area.

Thanks to anyone who cares to offer their opinion.

GeorgeJ
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Old 22nd June 2003, 02:45 AM   #2
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Hello George!

Have you tried the High Efficency board (Audio Asylum)


More hornphiles over there, and, you will get a world
of responses (Providing you are talking horns)

Bruce Edgar post frequently (High Efficency board)
along other reputable horn designers.


Oh, just for the record, one TAD Compression driver
would swallow your $1500


Best Regards,
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Old 22nd June 2003, 03:12 AM   #3
GeorgeJ is offline GeorgeJ  Canada
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Default What Horns to Build?

Quote:
Originally posted by OMNIFEX
Hello George!

Have you tried the High Efficency board (Audio Asylum)


More hornphiles over there, and, you will get a world
of responses (Providing you are talking horns)

Bruce Edgar post frequently (High Efficency board)
along other reputable horn designers.


Oh, just for the record, one TAD Compression driver
would swallow your $1500


Best Regards,

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I am aware of the high prices on TAD and JBL (maybe i should go mono)


I guess what I'm after is some starting setup that would give me quality representative sound before I commit to high price TAD's etc. I will post at some point in the High Efficency board, but after lurking here for awhile I find people here are a bit more focused and technical. For example, as good as the Single Driver site is, it seems most are looking for the cheapest possible as opposed to furthering sonic quality. Pro Sound boards do not want to hear about home systems, although I'm sure many of them have great modified home systems.

Thanks again

GeorgeJ
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Old 22nd June 2003, 11:38 AM   #4
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Hi George,

If nothing else, youíll find some interesting reading in this thread.
All you horn guys and gals
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Old 22nd June 2003, 04:15 PM   #5
GeorgeJ is offline GeorgeJ  Canada
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Thank Rod

GeorgeJ
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Old 22nd June 2003, 05:11 PM   #6
OMNIFEX is offline OMNIFEX  Jamaica
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Yes George. I Agree.

This board is very technical. This is the main reason I joined.

You can use both boards (Among others) to find the
solution to your questions.

That's what I do.

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Old 22nd June 2003, 07:55 PM   #7
GM is online now GM  United States
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Quote:
For example, as good as the Single Driver site is, it seems most are looking for the cheapest possible as opposed to furthering sonic quality.
While horns are my preferance for serious listening, I spend most of my time/energy there because IMO as a group they're the most dedicated to 'getting back to the music' that I've found on the net.

True, some are financially strapped or have different priorities (kids, etc.), but they're still seeking the most accurate performance they can afford, tweaking the el cheapo FR drivers into one or more levels of improved accuracy above what the manufacturer intended, etc.. Others, like me, that have 'been to the mountain' performance wise, now just enjoy a good challenge, with the implicit understanding that you 'can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear'.

Anyway, by my definition of 'slam', i.e. 'live' dynamics in the midbass/lower mids, only large driver compression horns or huge driver arrays will get the job done, so you can forget using FR drivers since any useful compression creates too much distortion in their mids/HF BW. Even for a second tier system, horn loading FR drivers need to be limited to >350Hz to keep distortion low since the widest dynamic range (if pipe organ music isn't factored in) is in the 250-350Hz BW.

I don't bother to keep up with what the manufacturers are doing, I assume by 'slimline' this means a folded design. If so, do a search on the HE (or any) forum for Ton Danley's (Tomservo) and W. Geiger's posts on the subject for guidelines to designing/building one. Indeed, with regard to TD, I've yet to read anything from him over the years that wasn't technically spot on IMO, and all his designs I've heard or used were outstanding performers so I recommend you study all his posts.

GM
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Old 22nd June 2003, 08:16 PM   #8
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Default Champagne tastes on a beer budget _big grin_

If it were not for the word _slam_ I would say that you were a perfect candidate for Azurahorns and Fostex FE206E.

Something I have not heard but is in your price range is http://www.ccsdana.net/mhauk/ Larry Moore and Dave Aukerman are pretty well known in the SET crowd so I'm guessing that you would have a pretty good shot with their kit.

If you started out with their kit and used the FE206E, you then would have a future upgrade path wil Lowther PM2A and AER.

As a practical matter, I don't see how you can achieve your objectives with compression drivers unless you allocate a somewhat larger budget.

However, high efficiency and low power tube amps and 8"FR front loaded horns are not what I usually associate with _slam_.


Dynamics with the 38" Azurahorns which I have are great - outstanding. So much so that I find myself listening at lower levels. Not sure about the Slam part though, maybe I don't listen to very much music that has much _slam_.

_Big Grin_

Ken L
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Old 22nd June 2003, 08:34 PM   #9
Ken L is offline Ken L  United States
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Default As usual GM is on the money

and says it better than I did. I apparently was composing the above post as he posted - I did not see his post until I checked mine.

FWIW GM's posts are some that I am always interested in reading because as he says about Tom, his posts seem always to be _spot on_ to me.

They both seem to have a way of cutting to the heart of the matter without wandering into technical irrelevancy.

Later

Ken L
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Old 22nd June 2003, 08:53 PM   #10
GeorgeJ is offline GeorgeJ  Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by GM

While horns are my preferance for serious listening, I spend most of my time/energy there because IMO as a group they're the most dedicated to 'getting back to the music' that I've found on the net...
I agree and I follow your posts there. I hope what I said does not offend, it just that every other post seems to be about RatShack and Pioneer $15 drivers and it gets a little stagnant, not that I have extra bucks to throw around either.

Quote:
Anyway, by my definition of 'slam', i.e. 'live' dynamics in the midbass/lower mids, only large driver compression horns or huge driver arrays will get the job done, so you can forget using FR drivers ...
Iv'e also come to that conclusion and hence my digging around for a new direction. By "large driver compression horns" do you mean larger than 1" or 2"? or am I completely misunderstanding you here?

Quote:
I assume by 'slimline' this means a folded design. If so, do a search on the HE (or any) forum for Ton Danley's (Tomservo) and W. Geiger's posts on the subject for guidelines to designing/building one. Indeed, .... so I recommend you study all his posts.
By slimline I meant something that I can practically use in a moderate size room. Oh' if I had the space i would go nuts! I have been checking out Tom Danley's posts and others, yourself included, and learning as much as I can as fast as I can. I might end up knocking down some walls if I have to.


Thanks GM
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