Do someone have any experiences with this driver? How smooth/harsh is it compared to B&C DE250?
Any measurements? Ive learned not to trust manufacture graphs... Except Seas
I got a pair and I am very impressed with them. I don't understand why it is not used more often but I guess that will change in the future. Even though I had to use an adapter from 2" to 1.4" to bold them to the StereoLab 400hz Tractrix horns, they came really close to my Yamaha JA6681 drivers. I wonder how they would sound if the horn was a native 2"er. Now the Yamaha is by many preferred over the TAD 4001 sounding more smooth but can not quite reach the top octave like the 4001. The Radian has very good heights for a single seat configuration, but the radiation pattern of a 2" Tractrix horn is not to good past 5k. I would never use a 2" Tractrix without a tweeter as I don't want to be pinned down to a 1 food wide sweet-spot, but that is personal preference.
Here is a quote from someone over at A-Asylum:
"I just replaced my 1" JBL CD's that were running genuine JBL 2421 aluminium diaphrams with a pair of 850pb Radians. Kind of an unfair comparison as the radians are 2" and the jbl's are 1", however I'd listened/read years of raving as to how smooth and extended the jbl's were. Yes they were better than my previous gear but they sounded pretty thin compared to the Radians. So I would have to agree 100% with the previous poster that the Mylar Radians are definately smoother, more detailed by far and have MUCH better top end.
Kelly." I got a frequency plot of the 850PB on a B&C ME75 but that horn is not the most balanced out there. If you care I can post it.
Greets, Klaus
Disclaimer, I have no affiliation with Radian at all. I was researching a good compression driver like 6 years ago and found out that Radian is actually manufacturing Emilar drivers. That made me buy a pair of used 850PB and since than I was hooked by their sweet sound.
Anyway here is the response curve for the 850PB on the B&C ME75 for comparison a B&C DE750TN on the same horn. Even on this horn the results are very good.
Radian bottom B&C top
Greets, Klaus
Anyway here is the response curve for the 850PB on the B&C ME75 for comparison a B&C DE750TN on the same horn. Even on this horn the results are very good.
Radian bottom B&C top
Greets, Klaus
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Interesting. I own a pair of 90s vintage Radians - the older version of the 700 series.
Don't like them at all. Rough sounding.
They must have gotten a lot better over the years, or they wouldn't get so many good comments. That's a good thing.
Anyone else have that experience with older Radians?
Don't like them at all. Rough sounding.
They must have gotten a lot better over the years, or they wouldn't get so many good comments. That's a good thing.
Anyone else have that experience with older Radians?
Radian has obviously bought the patent on the Emilar drivers. This driver as well as the 475PB is actually a brainchild of Jonas Renkus The only difference between the 3” diaphragm drivers is the strength of the magnetic force and the 2 different conical openings of the throat to either 1.4” or 2”. Many French audiophiles as well as John Hasquin consider the 475PB the next best driver to the TAD 2001. John has build many tractrix horns for his customers and says the the 475PB does 98% of the TAD. See attached screen-shot for his comments.
For you guys in the US, there is no need to search in Europe for good compression drivers that are affordable, you got it all there. Having the Yamaha JA-6681 as a 1.4”er and the Radian 850PB as a 2”er, my search for compression drivers is over. There is another product from Radian that I really tempted to try, the 5208 8 inch coax speaker that was used in the Galante Audio Rhapsody speaker. It got a rave review from Steve Rochlin over at Enjoy the Music. My wife is not thrilled about the looks of my all horn system and I must agree, it is only acceptable in a dedicated listening room. I am hooked to high efficiency and the next step down would either be a small appealing high eff. (94-96db) Coax or to build a 360 degree horn, in the likes of the fantastic Duvel series.
Greets, Klaus
For you guys in the US, there is no need to search in Europe for good compression drivers that are affordable, you got it all there. Having the Yamaha JA-6681 as a 1.4”er and the Radian 850PB as a 2”er, my search for compression drivers is over. There is another product from Radian that I really tempted to try, the 5208 8 inch coax speaker that was used in the Galante Audio Rhapsody speaker. It got a rave review from Steve Rochlin over at Enjoy the Music. My wife is not thrilled about the looks of my all horn system and I must agree, it is only acceptable in a dedicated listening room. I am hooked to high efficiency and the next step down would either be a small appealing high eff. (94-96db) Coax or to build a 360 degree horn, in the likes of the fantastic Duvel series.
Greets, Klaus
Attachments
After reading this I am very happy that I stuck to my PB475
What horn do you have them on?
Sweet. 600hz-700hz LeCleach Horn should have an acceptable high frequency coverage, to do without a tweet. Have you heard about the e-conowave that was introduced by Zilch over at the JBL place? People just raving about the neutral sound and the good high frequency coverage. $12 or something at PartsExpress.
Greets, Klaus
Greets, Klaus
Radian 475 resonance frequency?
Do you know what the resonance frequency of the Radian 475 is on a big horn? How low can it play. I'm trying to choose between 1" and 1.4" drivers for a 400Hz LeCleac'h horn.After reading this I am very happy that I stuck to my PB475
John Hasquin states that he gets strong output from about 480hz on a 400hz tractrix horn. The LeCleach horn is about the same in this respect. It's all about a tradeoff between better hf radiation pattern on a smaller horn vs. low coupling and not so good hf radiation.
Here is a very interesting post by John that explaines a bit of the tradeoff:
"I have not found a drivers resonance to be the major cause of beaming in tractrix horns. What I personally feel like contributes the most to beaming is using too large a horn for accomplishing the task at hand. A larger horn in my experience did not have better pattern control for the following reasons: Since the larger horn is trying to be used below the Fs of the driver, it behaves like a direct radiator with a high pass filter on the bottom frequencies. This happens because the tractrix is too short to properly load the sound wave fronts at the lower frequencies, you can't cram a quarter wavelength sound wave into a horn that thinks it's an eighth sized horn, depth wise. Mouth size does not matter as much as horn depth does here. Because the lower frequencies are not loaded, your control goes to hell on the bottom end and beams. In, addition in the case of a 2" driver with a horn of this size, the horn only loads approximately from Fs up to 2200Hz. What you end up with is discontinuities on both ends of the frequency extremes, not a good thing. John you are correct in stating the high frequencies do beam somewhat, that is the physics of the situation and can not be changed. You would need a very, very small throat to get any loading much above 5kHz, smaller than 1". What I find to help limit the perception of beaming is using the right sized horn for the job. When I design my horns I have some ratios and other rules of thumb that accurately predicts where the tractrix will unload the sound wave front given a certain horn flare and driver resonance. An example is the tractrix horn I designed for the *Radian* 475. I use a 380Hz tractrix and with the help of the drivers resonance, 530Hz, I get nice strong output starting from 575Hz. Since the 475 is a 1" horn it loads the high frequencies to 4300Hz or so, above that it behaves as a direct radiator. What you get is completely horn loading and control from the critical mid range to 4300Hz. Above 4300Hz off axis you only hear a softening of the high frequencies as you move out of the sweet spot. However, from 575Hz to 4300Hz there is virtually no beaming and much less perceived difference in SPL outside the sweet spot because this whole bandwidth is being acoustically coupled to the air properly. When you get a horn and driver designed correctly like this the field of depth and imaging are incredible to say the least. Properly loading the sound wave front is everything and if you make too large a horn and have slop on the bottom, your results will not be optimal. I hope I have been able to convey what and why Bruce and I believe that large horns are not the answer. *JLH*"
Greets,
Klaus
Here is a very interesting post by John that explaines a bit of the tradeoff:
"I have not found a drivers resonance to be the major cause of beaming in tractrix horns. What I personally feel like contributes the most to beaming is using too large a horn for accomplishing the task at hand. A larger horn in my experience did not have better pattern control for the following reasons: Since the larger horn is trying to be used below the Fs of the driver, it behaves like a direct radiator with a high pass filter on the bottom frequencies. This happens because the tractrix is too short to properly load the sound wave fronts at the lower frequencies, you can't cram a quarter wavelength sound wave into a horn that thinks it's an eighth sized horn, depth wise. Mouth size does not matter as much as horn depth does here. Because the lower frequencies are not loaded, your control goes to hell on the bottom end and beams. In, addition in the case of a 2" driver with a horn of this size, the horn only loads approximately from Fs up to 2200Hz. What you end up with is discontinuities on both ends of the frequency extremes, not a good thing. John you are correct in stating the high frequencies do beam somewhat, that is the physics of the situation and can not be changed. You would need a very, very small throat to get any loading much above 5kHz, smaller than 1". What I find to help limit the perception of beaming is using the right sized horn for the job. When I design my horns I have some ratios and other rules of thumb that accurately predicts where the tractrix will unload the sound wave front given a certain horn flare and driver resonance. An example is the tractrix horn I designed for the *Radian* 475. I use a 380Hz tractrix and with the help of the drivers resonance, 530Hz, I get nice strong output starting from 575Hz. Since the 475 is a 1" horn it loads the high frequencies to 4300Hz or so, above that it behaves as a direct radiator. What you get is completely horn loading and control from the critical mid range to 4300Hz. Above 4300Hz off axis you only hear a softening of the high frequencies as you move out of the sweet spot. However, from 575Hz to 4300Hz there is virtually no beaming and much less perceived difference in SPL outside the sweet spot because this whole bandwidth is being acoustically coupled to the air properly. When you get a horn and driver designed correctly like this the field of depth and imaging are incredible to say the least. Properly loading the sound wave front is everything and if you make too large a horn and have slop on the bottom, your results will not be optimal. I hope I have been able to convey what and why Bruce and I believe that large horns are not the answer. *JLH*"
Greets,
Klaus
Radian 475 at 600Hz awesome!
600Hz from a Radian 475 should be amazing sound. No need to go with the more expensive 1.4" driver for home audio which will beam in the highs more. He answered my other question too since Radian doesn't publish an impedance curve, the 475 has a low resonant frequency of 530Hz on a 400Hz horn. Most 1" drivers are closer to 800Hz. Are these quotes from another thread somewhere?
600Hz from a Radian 475 should be amazing sound. No need to go with the more expensive 1.4" driver for home audio which will beam in the highs more. He answered my other question too since Radian doesn't publish an impedance curve, the 475 has a low resonant frequency of 530Hz on a 400Hz horn. Most 1" drivers are closer to 800Hz. Are these quotes from another thread somewhere?
i have made direct listening comparisons between the JBL Le85, Radian 475pb, and Coral M100, on a JBL HL91 horn with lens. By far the best performer was the Coral M100, followed by the JBL Le85, and the Radian was rather poor sounding. Less defined and less transparent. The Coral beats the others on clarity, detail and transparency, and goes lower. I was quit amazed and surprised to hear such a big difference. I expected more, based on my experience with the Radian 950pb, which sounds great.
Sad i did not bring the Corals to brazil, to compare with Vitavox S2. Maibe next year...
Sad i did not bring the Corals to brazil, to compare with Vitavox S2. Maibe next year...
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