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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 4th May 2010, 03:41 AM   #141
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Huh, didn't notice you live in Sonoma. I lived there until 2005.
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Old 4th May 2010, 05:40 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by otto88 View Post
What do you mean by an audio interface with loopback?
Interfaces are soundcards, but you'll get more hits searching on audio interface as that's how they're marketed. Loopback is a feature where what would normally be a stereo output channel can be made available as a DAW input. For example, pretty much all non-ASIO sources appear as DAW 1 and 2 in my Saffire Pro 40. So I mix those inputs to the Saffire's loop 1 and 2 outputs and tell Allocator to take its input from loop 1 and 2. Works great for stuff like patching last.fm or Amazon audio samples from a web browser into the PC crossover. SoundEasy and the default outputs of winamp and Windows Media Player are other examples of non-ASIO sources.

Apropos of cuibono's comments about Christian Budde's winamp plugin for Allocator I'm not terribly impressed by it either, but it worked OK. I've better results from loopback with winamp's standard ASIO plugin, though mostly because I use my laptop for stuff while running the crossover and therefore tend to knock the audio stream offline and need to restart it regularly.
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Old 4th May 2010, 06:53 AM   #143
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Ultrafunk linear-phase EQ? (Stig, your Ultrafunk friend Ė a new product?)?
Its not a new product... several years old now. Dont know if a new version will come, sorry.
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:11 PM   #144
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To be honest, while I can broadly appreciate the benefits of PC crossovers, Iím at about square 1 with software/ crossovers, eg I had to google to find out what a DAW is.

No doubt I could google and learn, but the quality of whatís out there no doubt varies a lot - could some suggestions be made about where best to learn/ background about PC software/crossovers.

Or just get eg Allocator (which allows passive linear phase crossovers) + PLParEQX3 + Bidule, and give it a bash?

Advice is much appreciated
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:19 PM   #145
sendler is offline sendler  United States
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Default Acourate

Quote:
Originally Posted by otto88 View Post
To be honest, while I can broadly appreciate the benefits of PC crossovers, Iím at about square 1 with software/ crossovers, eg I had to google to find out what a DAW is.

No doubt I could google and learn, but the quality of whatís out there no doubt varies a lot - could some suggestions be made about where best to learn/ background about PC software/crossovers.

Or just get eg Allocator (which allows passive linear phase crossovers) + PLParEQX3 + Bidule, and give it a bash?

Advice is much appreciated
You can also consider running Acourate. I am leaning towards that one in the next weeks.
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:22 PM   #146
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Does Acourate allow passive linear phase crossovers?

Have people generally found it good?
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Old 4th May 2010, 03:51 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by otto88 View Post
Or just get eg Allocator (which allows passive linear phase crossovers) + PLParEQX3 + Bidule, and give it a bash?
As you've guessed, quality is variable so your mileage will likely vary depending on how the components in your system interact. Replicating your DCX settings with Allocator.exe is the simplest starting point I know. The Allocator demo is an indefinite trial, so the only thing you stand to lose from grabbing it and trying it is your time.
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Old 4th May 2010, 06:23 PM   #148
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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Otto - all this stuff we're doing is totally thrown together. I think very few people are doing multi-way, pc based, linear phase crossover and equalization, based on solid measurements. So unfortunately, there isn't much of a guide out there. Its good to be honest - if you don't know what a DAW is, that helps others know to explain things more.

My suggestion would be to keep it simple at first - don't try and incorporate a linear phase design. If you want to learn this stuff, start at the beginning. Allocator is fairly easy to use, if you can get everything connected. Reaper (a DAW) was easy for me to implement because I've used it a bit previously. To get started, first focus on the appropriate hardware - then choose a simple software route that gets you the ability to do measurements (ARTA?) and XO/EQ (Allocator/Reaper?).

It will end up being a lot of time and money, but it has the capability of developing a high performance speaker system, so you kind of have to be serious and dedicated. I started off knowing nothing, and had really basic speakers. Only over time did I develop things to there current level of complexity. In fact, in some ways, thing are too complex. Having something that just works simply is really important.

Also, there are many of doing things that yield enjoyable results. This isn't the only one...
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Old 4th May 2010, 09:44 PM   #149
wowo101 is offline wowo101  Germany
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cuibono - sorry to bother you again with the issue of distortion in the W4-13020. I did some comparison measurements with and without dipole EQ, and this is what I got:

w4-1320_w_w-o_EQ.png

Measurements were taken at 0.5m, effectively ungated, green with EQ for roll-off compensation, purple without. XO points are 300 Hz and 1.8 kHz.

What it shows is that (especially 3rd order, the dotted lines) distortion rises dramatically when EQ is applied. It is clearly audible as an ugly rasping noise. UnEQed, everything seems fine.

Now my question is: Can you tell me at which SPL you have taken your measurements (mine: 90 dB @ 0.5m), and whether your distortion measurements were taken with or without roll-off compensation? I suspect that it's really the compensation EQ that's killing my 1320 here...

I would be very thankful for any hint on that!
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Old 4th May 2010, 10:53 PM   #150
cuibono is offline cuibono  United States
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Hi Wowo,

First, I don't know the specifics of my measurements, its been too long, but I do them usually at 2m, sometimes 1. If done outdoors, they are 'annoy the neighbors' loud, to get decent S/N. If done indoors, my wife won't be anywhere near. I don't do them quietly, or with the mic close. I do them with and without EQ.

I should add the nonlinear distortion measurements are highly variable, particularly in room, and if not done exactly the same, are not comparable. But they are still useful as a guide - particularly to see if one is having any problems, as you are.

But don't despair - if you can hear the rasp, I would say there is something definitely wrong with the driver. Like I said, I had a number of bad TB drivers. If you play music, and hear raspiness, send them back.
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