Multidriver speaker design wanted, first time post and build

[noxdowne]

Hello all, I appreciate you taking the time to read my thread

My name is Jeff and I am currently having built for me 2 of the "easy button max" subwoofers with the Maelstrom 18" drivers.

They are being powered by a behringer ep4000 and a have an SVS Audessey subwoofer eq on those.

I am assuming that 100hz and down those should really get the job done well

Now I am very much a midbass fanatic (cerwin vega weirdo kind of fanatic) but I also like to have an accuratesound to the other ranges, so a speaker like the CLS215 is something I couldn't bring myself to use 24/7.

I want to build 7 speakers with a budget of about $2500 for the works.

for my reciever I am using the : NAD Electronics :: T785 A/V Surround Sound Receiver : Specifications

I have one Acurus 200x3 for the front three channels and 2 2700 NAD amps for the side and rear channels to Bi amplify.

Using 200w to power the low end on the speakers in front and 150w to power the low end on the side and rear speakers in conjunction with the NAD 120w for the midrange and highs on all seven speakers should give me more than enough power and Ohm handling to pretty much do whatever I need speaker wise to accomplish my goal.

I picture a 2ft square speaker for the center and surrounds that has multiple drivers to achieve very strong bass down to my subwoofer frequency, I want it mid bass "heavy" to satisfy my rock music and gaming/theatre needs with very good midrange and highs for those moments when I like to listen to classical.

For the main two channels, I would like to match the "timber", but with even more bass power to help fill my 15x40 foot basement room that has 10ft ceilings.

I invision a multidriver tower with say six 8" woofers, 2 midrange and one tweeter for two channel listening.

I think I can get away with even two 5 inch woofers on the surround channels with one mid and one tweeter.

With the center I want to try and keep it more of the square shape and trying to keep it pretty much matched with the towers, but laying out the shape differently. Maybe increasing the size to a 3ftx3ft square to try and use the same overall volume of the towers. This speaker would be on the floor under my screen and visable at all times, slightly tipped up to direct the sound at my 4 seats located 10 feet from my screen.

So with as much background as I could muster there, I am looking to see if there is a plane that anyone has, I proven design or just anything that can get me started.

I have been readings for months on this and other forums and I am ready to make a move, but I have seen nothing like my "picture in my head" of this type of a confiquration.

If I can keep the the surrounds within the 120w range of my reciever I can sell my two 2700 amp to help push my budget up from the $2500 to around $3200 for a budget.

Where do I start and how do I start?

I am thanking you all in advance!

Jeff

[noxdowne]

here is what I am thinking so far:

tweeters : Parts-Express.comayton RS28A-4 1-1/8" Aluminum Dome Tweeter | tweeter rs28a-4 aluminum dome dayton reference series rs dayton rs daytonref083108 daySpeakers123008

midranges I am debating do I do : Parts-Express.comayton RS100-4 4" Reference Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm | Rs100-4 woofer 4 inch woofer midbass dayton loudspeaker dayton audio rs rs100 phase plug dayton reference reference-22008 daytonFullTweetRange030209

or : Parts-Express.comayton RS52AN-8 2" Dome Midrange | midrange dome midrange rs52an-8 mid range dome midrange dayton zdt35-60608


Woofers are the 8 inch x6 overkill? Parts-Express.comayton RS225S-8 8" Reference Shielded Woofer 8 Ohm | rs225s-8 8" woofer midbass sheilded woofer dayton dayton audio dayton loudspeaker reference reference series shielded RS aluminum reference-22008 cone RS220 reference DARSW110508

or could I get away with Parts-Express.comayton RS180-4 7" Reference Woofer 4 Ohm | rs225-4 7" woofer midbass rs aluminum cone phase plug dayton


Picking speakers from the above, which crossover would you pick from here to make your combination? :

3-WAY CROSSOVERS from Parts Express ship same day and come with 45 day money back guarantee. Free Shipping Available. Order free 10,000 product catalog.


cabinets will be done to match, volume etc

really appreciate this guys!

Jeff

[Brett]

If this is your first time building a multiway main speaker, build someone else's already developed design. Or expect a long and expensive learning curve. Subs are easy compared to mains.

Maybe something like the Statements for the mains and the Statement Monitor for sides/rears. You'll have to check parts pricing.

[noxdowne]

Thanks for the reply, but I don't think the statements will do the midbass level I desire.

I like the thought of a proven design, is there another along the lines of what I describe that you may recomend?

[Moondog55]

Originally Posted by noxdowne

Thanks for the reply, but I don't think the statements will do the midbass level I desire.

I like the thought of a proven design, is there another along the lines of what I describe that you may recomend?

What SPL are you looking for then?

Is it compression at high input power that may be worrying you?

How big is your room again?

[chris661]

I'm struggling to understand why you want so much mid-bass. Still, if that's what you're after, check here:

Parts Express DIY Project

If they won't do it, look at PA gear, think several 12s per side.
As an alternative, providing your subwoofers are situated near the front mains, you could raise the crossover frequency to 200Hz. An 18" woofer per side would certainly give you some thump.

I don't think making the speakers deliberately heavy on the midbass is a good idea. If you made it switchable, that would be better. For example, having the midbass turned up sounds like a cheap 2.1 system with the "sub" turned up. Not a good sound (if you ask me).

I'd say go for something loud, but still goes deep. The midbass kick will take care of itself.

Chris
PS - I'm curious - have you heard something like the system you're planning on building? What was it?

[Brett]

Originally Posted by noxdowne

I like the thought of a proven design, is there another along the lines of what I describe that you may recomend?

The Magna would be closest in concept, but it doesn't use any drivers that I would.

FWIW, a generic xover never works well, so if you want to build something like you suggested earlier, you're up for a lot of simming, testing, measuring and then tweaking the final design.

[noxdowne]

Thanks guys!

The main listening area is 15 feet wide by 40 feet long with 10 foot ceilings. It opens on one edge to the furnace area which adds another 15 feet by 12 feet with 6 foot ceilings and on the rear which is open to another 12 feet by 15 feet with 10 foot ceilings.

My problem is that the basement is fully open without walls and the sound, subwoofers included just disappears due to the large area I am trying to fill.

The SPL I desire will need to be pretty dramatic due to this effect.

The reason I am looking for so much mid bass is best explained this way:

When I was young you could play the old cerwin vega d9's in an area half of what I describe and you could feel the chest pound of the bass from 10 feet away.

The speaker revamp I am going through is due to having Polk RTi A9's in front with the matching CSiA6 cdenter and generic towers for rear channels.

I have been running a 5 channel system for about a year now with dual Paradigm DSP3400's as my subs and the SVS sub EQ was just added a few months back.

I invested in the amps and the receiver first trying to get more punch, but the room is so dull and flat it drives me crazy.

I feel the floor shake from the subs, I get vibration on the main floor but I don't "feel" the bass in my body at all.

I want a dance club feel to the bass without using pro gear.

Because I am sitting 10 feet from the speakers and I am unable to move them closer I decided to revamp the whole speaker system.

I will use the new subs I am having built next week, I am selling my paradigm to fund that project.

I am wanting to build the speakers and have them ready for when I sell my existing speakers.

I looked at that link for the magna and my first thought was that I could probably use those as my mains, but now I have to match the center and surrounds to that design and there doesn't seem to be a plan for that.

I have never heard or seen anything like I am describing and I honestly think the only way I will be satisfied is to do this myself even with the trial and error.

Can someone recommend a good speaker design calculator that I can plug in the info from parts express and it will tell me the volume required for each driver?

I am thinking I will contain individual boxes within a larger enclosure to tune this idea.

I understand that heavy midbass in a standard room would be a lousy sound, but this is so not a typical area to fill with sound.


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Man am I a draftsman or what

I tell you what guys and I hope I can get the help.

1) point me to a speaker calculator
2) Once I design the cabinets help me get my Ohm load right
3) help with cross over frequencies once I pick my drivers
4) I document everything to help others to do similar once I get the bugs out.

Would anyone be into this?

[chris661]

I'm interested in helping you out.

Now I get why you want the midbass, it's certainly easier to help. As I mentioned, crossing your subwoofers over higher would mean they're covering the midbass chest-thumping area better, so you've got a better chance there.

Before you invest a huge amount of time and money, it might be an idea to tweak the system you have, so you can see exactly what the problem is.

The reason I showed you those speakers is so you have a design you can clone directly. Someone else has messed with crossovers etc, so all you have to do is build the thing.

If you want to model your own speakers, download winISD - there's plenty of tutorials out there for you too.

I'm thinking you should aim for decent bass to maybe 30Hz, with a system that will go loud enough to hit you square in the chest.
Generally speaking, around 40Hz hits you in the gut, around 80Hz hits you in the chest.

[noxdowne]

Awesome Chris, I see that my diagram doen't look anything like it did when I tried to put it together.

I will start with winISD and play with it over the next few days.

the Parts Express DIY Project
looks more like the starting point for me for the mains.

The plan could be adapted horizontally for the center with the surrounds being really reduced down to keep the timber the same throughout.

I will get back to this thread by midweek after I have decided on a plan.

Thanks again!