ZRT in the middle (center)

[MMeche]

After rewarding adventures in DIY speaker building (a North Creek pair and Tony Gee's USB) I decided its time to lay out some $$$ and see what money can buy. Zaph's Scanspeak Revelator based ZRT won the contest so I ordered up the Madisound Kit which should be here any day now. I went for the drivers and crossover parts unassembled. My plan is to use some the North Creek cabinet construction doctrrine (I am handy in the shop) as well as their direct wiring approach and details. Based on some of his comments my guess is that John Zaph K would find these measure less that high value but I do get some pleasure out of making things more compicated that they need to be. Nonetheless, my intention is to stick to the design parameters of volume placement, crossover, ect and just modify the details that fall into my range of competancy.

So here is the big question, I am building these for music mostly but they will flank a television for no other reason other than we just don't have enough rooms to differentiate. My wife is wondering what will be the new center channel to go with this pricy new project.

Should I go for a virtual center or is there an alternative that makes sense. I did pick up another Revelator on Ebay just in case. As a matter of fact, I just missed another pair tonight.

The HT reciever is a decent mid range Denon that actually sounds pretty good with my modest speakers, the afore mentioned projects as well as a few differnt B&W pairs. I have a couple of other amps and sources that I use for music. Power is not an issue.

Your thoughts please?

[edjosh23]

Did you build Tony's USB enclosure or your own design?
If so, try it out as a center channel (with the North Creeks in stereo) and see how you like it compared to stereo.
I'd say you can leave out the center if your main purpose is for music.

I would also recommend a different amp for music. I have a Denon and much prefer the Nuforce Icon (my desktop system) which was far less expensive. I've heard a couple pairs of my speakers on a Miniwatt which was very good (not quite a enough power for the ZRTs). I feel like you pay a lot for the processor in receivers and all of the channels. Nonetheless I believe a stereo amp has better amplifiers than receivers and will be the best option for music.

Josh

[MMeche]

I built the USB's precisly as Tony designed except that I used baltic birch + MDF; probably overkill given the small size of the box but I was exploring technique. The USB is flanked by the North Creeks (Echos BTW). The Center Channel is definately needed in this configuration. I may be too optimistic but I am thinking that the ZRTs with the ScanSpeak drivers will be an impressive upgrade and the USB will no longer work in the middle.

Is it likely that the ZRTs will provide better imaging and therefore a more effective virtual center?...time wil tell. At length plan to demo the North Creeks at surround but the main goal is music speakers. I abandoned surround speakers in the past because I couldn't get the image to snap into place and as a result they weren't much more than a noisy distraction.

I suspect the ZRTs will illuminate other warts in the system but thats ok, I like building stuff and have been looking for a good amp to build.

I guess the revised question should be: If I need one, what should the center be? I suppose another ZRT is one possible answer?

Mark

[edjosh23]

Personally I wouldn't consider a stereo setup in need of a center channel.
You mention virtual center... well as long as your speakers are positioned appropriately, your listening position is good, and the same frequency is coming out of bother speakers at the same SPL, it (the image) is in the center. The "virtual center" would be something that was mixed to be in the center of the sound stage. Perhaps I misinterpreted your comment. But I wouldn't see the need in helping find an instrument that was mixed in the center.

Now if you use the center channel to create a more full bodied sound that could be understandable. Although it may mean that your speakers and/or amp aren't giving you the kind of listening you want to have.

If your purpose is music (tv doesn't matter how captivating the sound is, you have another sense being entertained) you shouldn't need a center channel. Perhaps you find that the Echos have a narrow soundstage... I've never heard them before so I cannot comment, but if you try them and other speakers and find there is a narrow soundstage, perhaps you should look into some room treatment.

Adding a ZRT center channel would surely be nice, but it may be overkill. Center channels usually don't see many low frequencies. I'm a fullrange guy, so I like simplicity.

Good Luck,

Josh

[MMeche]

Josh;

Thanks for the message.

For music, I have no intention of using a center even if I have one. The center channel would be strictly in service of the Home Theater set up. The music listening would be stereo only.

"Virtual Center" is a mode on my SS Receiver that doesn't do a great job with the Echo's; the chief complaint is less about image and more about getting the dialog to punch through appropriately. If the ZRTs are substantially better in this regard or easier to achieve a satisfactory set up then there will be no center channel for HT as well.

I am just thinking ahead and wondering what I should put there if it turns out I need one with the ZRT pair in place. A ZRT Center may be overkill but would it do a good job or is there something better. The first possible complication that comes to mind is off axis listening. With my family of 4, will the guys on the edges of the couch hear and understand dialog? Our listening position is about 10' away.

There is also the ZRT 2.5. I presume none of these designs are meant to be flipped on their side but since it is not being fit into an entertainment center cabinet, that would not be a problem.

Mark

[MMeche]

My Zaph towers are underway after those pricey drivers sitting on the shelf for too long. My build is faithful to the original ZRT/Madisound geometry for the 2-way ported version.

I opted to have Madisound send me the crossovers parts unassembled so that I could more easily evaluate some of the Zaph recommended tweak options, primarily using alternative resistors in the high pass filter. I am now thinking that I want to hook up the the three resistors to a selector switch so that i could do some quick AB comparisons. I am also thinking about doing this for the for the low pass inductor options mentioned by JK. In the long run, I will probably remove the switches once I am convinced which way to go.

Is there some compelling electronic reason why I shouldn't do this?
Can anyone recommend a suitable switch?

M