Will this horn/driver combo beam?

Defo · 14th February 2010, 05:37 PM

I used to have a stereo-lab 400hz tractrix horn coupled to an Altec 299 1,4" compression driver. This combo beamed too much for my taste.

Will a combo with a Radian 2" driver with the horn below beam as much? And how high will it reach 16-17 khz with some eq?

The horn is a Le-Cleach 48 cm wide, 24 cm deep.

MaVo · 14th February 2010, 06:34 PM

All horns which are not constant directivity will beam in the upper frequencies, so this one will beam too.

Defo · 14th February 2010, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaVo

All horns which are not constant directivity will beam in the upper frequencies, so this one will beam too.

This begs the question, will it beam as much as the 1,4" 400hz Stereo-Lab tractrix horn? Which is deeper and has a more narrow expansion rate.

head_unit · 11:16 PM

I like the Le Cléac’h, I had never seen it before
(Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horn Loudspeakers)

Basically, all compression drivers have a high end rolloff in their power response, due to a combination of moving mass and also phasing of the sound across the diaphragm. A truly constant directivity horn will therefore roll off at the high end. But it's not the horn's fault, it is a natural feature of all drivers. Some horns try to get flat response on axis, and to do so they must progressively beam the highs to keep up the on-axis SPL.

I found this analysis:
LeCleac'h horn vs Conical Horn
It's all simulation, but seems likely. Bottom line would be the Le Cléac’h should beam a lot less than a typical exponential. Unfortunately, I'm not recalling about Tractrix and beaming. Are you really objecting to beaming, or to some kind of resonant peak?

jzagaja · 15th February 2010, 06:54 AM

60cm JMLC, 2", starts to beam above 20deg:

Min Phase Horn with Faital Drivers at German DIY Show in Gelsenkirchen

hasselbaink · 15th February 2010, 08:19 AM

Yes, Tractrix and Le Cleach horns beam. That is their nature and they have very good sound but if you are concerned with beaming then don't sit closer than - lets say 12 feet from the speakers. All else being equal, I do not think tractrix has any problems provided it is not expected to do super wide range duty.

Cheers

Defo · 19th February 2010, 02:09 AM

Why not make a conical shaped "phase plug" inside the horn to improve dispersion? Held in place by a geddes style foam plug?

Better dispersion, and redused HOM's at the same time.

Defo · 19th February 2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defo

Why not make a cone shaped "phase plug" inside the horn to improve dispersion? Held in place by a geddes style foam plug?

Better dispersion, and redused HOM's at the same time.

Bump, anyone tried this?

Defo · 7th May 2010, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Defo

Why not make a conical shaped "phase plug" inside the horn to improve dispersion? Held in place by a geddes style foam plug?

Better dispersion, and redused HOM's at the same time.

Bump again

limono · 7th May 2010, 02:41 AM

Why not add a tweeter and two more horns ? If you want to use tractrix you need many horns for best results. Otherwise use CD horn and EQ the heck of it.

14th February 2010, 11:13 PM	#4
head_unit diyAudio Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles	I like the Le Cléac’h, I had never seen it before (Azurahorn -Le Cleac'h Acoustic Horn Loudspeakers) Basically, all compression drivers have a high end rolloff in their power response, due to a combination of moving mass and also phasing of the sound across the diaphragm. A truly constant directivity horn will therefore roll off at the high end. But it's not the horn's fault, it is a natural feature of all drivers. Some horns try to get flat response on axis, and to do so they must progressively beam the highs to keep up the on-axis SPL. I found this analysis: LeCleac'h horn vs Conical Horn It's all simulation, but seems likely. Bottom line would be the Le Cléac’h should beam a lot less than a typical exponential. Unfortunately, I'm not recalling about Tractrix and beaming. Are you really objecting to beaming, or to some kind of resonant peak? Last edited by head_unit; 14th February 2010 at 11:16 PM.

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14th February 2010, 06:34 PM	#2
MaVo diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Herne	All horns which are not constant directivity will beam in the upper frequencies, so this one will beam too.

15th February 2010, 06:54 AM	#5
jzagaja diyAudio Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Szczecin	60cm JMLC, 2", starts to beam above 20deg: Min Phase Horn with Faital Drivers at German DIY Show in Gelsenkirchen

15th February 2010, 08:19 AM	#6
hasselbaink diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Copenhagen, Frederiksberg	Yes, Tractrix and Le Cleach horns beam. That is their nature and they have very good sound but if you are concerned with beaming then don't sit closer than - lets say 12 feet from the speakers. All else being equal, I do not think tractrix has any problems provided it is not expected to do super wide range duty. Cheers

7th May 2010, 02:41 AM	#10
limono diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2007	Why not add a tweeter and two more horns ? If you want to use tractrix you need many horns for best results. Otherwise use CD horn and EQ the heck of it.

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