Do you wan't to help design my new 3 way?!?

[saabracer23]

Hey all,

I am going to venture into a new build soon and have a few ideas I wanted to run by you all. My father is building the John Murphy corner array and wanted me to do the same, but I like more conventional speakers. Who knows I may change my mind after hearing them.

I really like the looks of the B&W 802 series and I like floorstanding towers, so I'm thinking very stout towers, probably 100 -200 pounds each (I want them DENSE!). I have been playing with the idea of using either Usher or Dayton reference drivers. I also like speakers with authority! I want no slacking in the bass department, no sub either.

Design #1 : Tweeter Parts-Express.com:Usher 9950-20 1-1/8" Textile Dome Tweeter | 9950-20 tweeter soft dome tweeter silk dome textile dome fabric dome

Mid Parts-Express.com:Usher 8945A 7" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer | 8945a 7" woofer 7 inch woofer midbass midwoofer carbon fiber/paper cone woofer (or I could use the other 7 inch driver that usher uses in the speakers design, the 8948A the one I have linked below)

Woofers 3X Parts-Express.com:Usher 8955A 8" Carbon Fiber/Paper Woofer | 8955a 8" woofer 8 inch woofer midbass midwoofer carbon fiber woofer

Now the tweeter and 7 inch driver would share a sealed cabinet and below those I would have 3 of the 8 inch drivers sharing a ported encloser using a slot/shelf port probably tuned to Fs of the drivers = 25 cycles.

Would the tweeter and 7 inch midbass be able to keep up with the 3 8's?
Would the 7 inch make a good midrange/ midbass or would there be a better option?

Design 2: Same thing but using the Dayton reference drivers. Maybe instead of the 7 inch using the dome or one of the smaller coned drivers.

I would prefer to use the Ushers because I have always been fond of paper cones and I really like the way they look. If you guys don't think I would hear much of a difference than maybe it would be best to use the daytons so that I can save a little bit.

I will configure the drivers like this but add an 8
Usher Audio > Dancer Series Loudspeaker > CP-8871

Why the extra 8? Because I like the looks of more drivers, I would put four in if I could afford it lol.

Any insight or criticism welcome!

Thanks
Dan

[PeteMcK]

using 3 woofers is going to give you a low impedance, you'll need to make sure your amp can handle it. 2 or 4 is easier to get a reasonable impedance match to the amp.
re:'Would the tweeter and 7 inch midbass be able to keep up with the 3 8's?' - it's just a matter of matching sensitivities, but you need a bit extra in the woofers if you're going to use baffle step compensation (unless bi-amping)
re: Usher/Dayton, buy the best drivers you can afford, fewer regrets later...

[Iain McNeill]

Can you post a few lines why you like the Usher mid-range? What synergies are you planning to exploit?

A 7" mid-range is kinda large in my books. IIRC, Berenek says beaming starts when driver circumference = 1/4 wavelength. When I see the ripple in the response at 700Hz I'm thinking the driver's out of control. How can you XO that with a tweeter at 2K?

[saabracer23]

I have never used the usher, so I can't say that I do or don't like it. I just know that I prefer the sound of a paper coned drivers. Usher audio has designed very nice speakers as well as there are many other diy 2 ways using the 7" xo'd to the tweeter with great results. So I figured since Usher has a 14K dollar speaker using the 7" as a mid it would be fine. But please help me to understand.

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "what synergies are you planning to exploit?"

Thanks for the replies!

I'm hoping these are going to be the "I'll keep these for a couple of decades" speakers so I want to make sure I get them right. As far as low impedance, my amp right now (Carver) can handle a 2 ohm load. I will make sure to stick with amps that can handle the impedance.

Thanks
Dan

[Iain McNeill]

The 7" is a better compromise in a 2-way. But it sounds like you have the bass horsepower planned. I'm not the first to opine that the frequency range of the human voice is most important and the mid-range has to step up to that challenge.

I'm still looking for the perfect midrange.

<edit> synergies would be like using the acoustic roll off of a driver coupled with the passive filter to achieve a higher order XO response or matching impedances and sensitivities to eliminate attenuators.

[PeteMcK]

consider how large a cab you can stand; the 8955s have a very large Vas, you'd probably end up with a monster cab if you used these; your best bet as a starting point is to do some sims in Unibox or Winisd (both free to download and easy to use) and see what results you get.

PS, I second what Iain's saying - the mid is the most important drver...

[Iain McNeill]

My current leaning is to one of the popular full range drivers as mid-range duty. Fostex, even Tang Band if you don't need too much power. I'm waiting to see what the new Vifa parts are like.

[saabracer23]

I agree 100%, the vocal range is the most important, I just figured it would work since usher was using it in the same way. I'm glad I have people more knowledgeable than me to help me out here.

I thought about the vas also, but the exported CLIO t/s parameters cuts the vas by over half! I don't know which is more reliable. If the 7 inch is a nogo then Usher makes a dome mid, a 9845, though I would be afraid it wouldn't keep up unless I crossed over at a high frequency, maybe too have for the 8s?

Alright here is design 3: stick with the Usher tweeter, eliminate the one of the bass driver and get two instead, but step them up to 10's. Parts-Express.com:Usher 1001B 10" Paper Cone Woofer | 1001b 10" woofer 10 inch woofer midbass midwoofer paper woofer

How much low end output would I loose over the 3 8's? It wouldn't look as impressive either, but I'm not in this for looks.

For the midrange, sticking with the paper cone, a scanspeak revelator since one would cost me roughly as much as the one bass driver I eliminated and the midrange it would be replacing.

Would this be a better setup? What scanspeak would be suggested (I think the $285 4.5" one may be a little too steep, unless its worth the extra cash...) Are there any other 10" driver that would perform as well as the Ushers in the $100 range?

Thanks again for all the help!
Dan

[Antus]

with fewer driver, u can use better quality driver for the same money. for instant, use 4 drive instead of 5, u will be able to use scan-speak instead of Usher driver.

2 10inch is definately better than 3 8inch. a single 12 inch will be better than two 10inch if you space is large. but a good 12inch is hard to find and expensive, though.

if it's my project, i might use SB Acoustics 12inch. (or dual 10inch from the same group) ScanSpeak 5 inch mid range, and 1inch tweeter.

[PeteMcK]

Here are some designs along the lines you are thinking of;
CNO 2.
Ekta GrandeScanSpeak 18W/
Zaph|Audio - ZDT3.5

another approach would be to build a top quality two way such as
Zaph|Audio - ZD5 - Scan Speak 15W8530K00 and Vifa XT25
or this Usher 8945P 2-Way

and add bi-amped woofers later as you can afford it,
to end up with something like this:
Humble Homemade Hifi
but with multiple woofers to get the look you want