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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 29th January 2010, 10:20 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Cmac16 View Post
i have 9 speakers in total in my system, 4 smaller ''bookshelf'' 2 way speakers, a set of mach ones up front, a set of 3 way towers with 15'' drivers and an upgraded tweet, and a kenwood center channel. all being powered with a sony 100x5 channel amp.

i was basically wondering how can i make my system sound better?
Well, speakers with better drivers would probably make a big difference, and if you could make the speakers all matched. I don't mean this in an offensive way at all, but it sounds like you have a mishmash of not-the-highest-quality stuff going on. (What the heck are the towers being used for?). And the Mach 1s while kinda cool are not the epitome of sound quality, or quantity for that matter. Don't know about your other stuff, but at least Kenwood never made any really top quality speakers that I'm aware of.

The speakers make by far the hugest difference in the sound. If you really want to upgrade the sound you need to upgrade the speakers. Really, this means better drivers. Definitely cabinets make a difference, but they cannot improve the quality of the drivers themselves, it's like trying to make the proverbial silk purse out of a sow's ear.
--> To really upgrade your sound, you'll simply have to spend some money on better drivers.

Now if you have a lot of cabinet making skill, that is really cool and useful. Because, a lot of folks can give you advice on inexpensive but good drivers which you can utilize to the max by building your own cabinets. You can even consider unusual systems like horns, transmission lines, arrays, and so on if cosmetically acceptable. For that, I'd recommend starting a new thread-explain your room, your equipment, what music you play, what you want out of the speaker system i.e. how loud must you play, and how much quality do you demand?

Maybe your 15s could be reworked into a sub, though you'd need a separate amp. Which Sony do you have? If it doesn't have bass management, then your bass is wrong because most of your channels cannot reproduce it.


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Originally Posted by Cmac16 View Post
also if somone could point me in the dirrection of information on dirrectional airflow in a room and speaker placement?
There are undoubtedly a bunch of threads here and at other places like stevehoffman.tv and audioasylum.com. But for some very basic observations:
- Speakers should be equidistant and symmetric. If surrounds aren't at quite the same distance from the listening position versus the mains, it's not the end of the world. But everything must be symmetric Right vs Left
- Center channel must be equidistant also. This means that if your receiver doesn't have time delay, the center channel must be "farther back" than the line between the mains. If the center is in a fixed spot, the mains must come out. If they can't...you need a time delay, if you want to listen the same way the mix was made.
- Audyssey processing will align that center and fix various other problems, though it cannot work miracles.
- Avoid putting the speakers next to reflective surfaces. Especially, avoid that a left speaker is next to something reflective but the right is next to a dead area or vice versa.
- Aim the speakers at the listening position. Some folks like to tape a laser pointer onto the speakers to be sure this alignment is correct. One exception at least: if a speaker on one side is unavoidably next to something reflective, aim away from that and repeat on the other side.

Sound in a room spreads rather more like a wave, it's not "airflow" like I think you mean.


Consider starting another thread with pictures and model numbers of your equipment and room, and just asking "what would you do to improve this." Also be sure to note your restrictions: stuff you can't move, budget constraints, etc.

Last edited by head_unit; 29th January 2010 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 29th January 2010, 10:26 PM   #22
Cmac16 is offline Cmac16  Canada
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i think thats what i might do then. i'll clean up, take a few pics. is this the right forum to be posting a thread like this?

and i think i've decided to save up for a plate amp and build a separate sub enclosure.
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Old 29th January 2010, 11:03 PM   #23
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Consider starting another thread with pictures and model numbers of your equipment and room, and just asking "what would you do to improve this."
I would stay in same thread, just ask the administrator to change the header name for a better one, if that's possible. Some times a good introduction is what's needed.

Last edited by Inductor; 29th January 2010 at 11:07 PM.
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Old 29th January 2010, 11:17 PM   #24
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so here it is. up front- mach one, up top, acoustic research speakers and kenwood center channel, Sony STR-DE595 reciever.
rear is power performance sound ( the big ones) and the little guys are RFT BR26 classics

i've got a few random speakers and things kicking around as you can see haha

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Last edited by Cmac16; 29th January 2010 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 30th January 2010, 12:27 AM   #25
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So which ones are which??

You could clean things up a bit if ALL of those speakers are hooked up, having 2 sets of L+R's can't be good.

More details on the 3-ways would be good if you can ( are they hooked in?) separate powered subs are best but sometimes you have to go with what you can afford.
Please supply a quick sketch of the speaker/amp layout
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Old 30th January 2010, 12:36 AM   #26
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well the mach ones are the ones right beside the tv. the AR's are the little guys hanging from the ceiling.

and the rear as i said above, the little bookshelf 2 ways are RFT Acoustics that sound good as is. and the bigger ones i'll probably be taking out and using the tweeters in something else..

and the 2 front speakers are on an A/B front channel, for loud and quiet listening.. and i can run them all at the same time of course haha

other than that the amp is wired up regular....
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Old 30th January 2010, 05:37 PM   #27
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A plate amp and box are not expensive
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Originally Posted by Cmac16 View Post
and i think i've decided to save up for a plate amp and build a separate sub enclosure.
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Old 30th January 2010, 06:33 PM   #28
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Gee, you got a lotta stuff going on!

I'm smiling looking at your stuff though, like a pleasant blast from the past. Especially the Mach Ones, I always though they looked really cool.

So first some words about ideal speaker positioning:

Height: They should all be in the same horizontal plane, not some higher and some lower.
- OK, the rear surrounds maybe it's not as practical, and fortunately not as critical for movies. Still ideal for music though.
- Yes you often see a center below the TV, but that's not really ideal.

Distance: all the speakers should be the same exact distance from the listening position.
- If this is not practical, you need a receiver or separates with time delay to cope. An Audyssey EQ function will do this setup automatically and fix other problems as well.
- Note that equal distances implies the center should be further back than the line between the main speakers. This may not be possible, meaning you may simply have to have time delay.

Orientation: speakers should be vertical. Those speakers you have on their sides, turn them right side up. Otherwise, the sound from the all drivers interferes. The speakers are not designed for that orientation.
- Center channels should have a midrange below a tweeter, and woofers on the sides. I know hardly any do, but that is due to cost and marketing reasons, not acoustics.


Next, decide what speakers you are going to use. Just one set for each channel!

Then, decide what speakers you want for the future...my next post...
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Old 30th January 2010, 06:47 PM   #29
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If you like building cabinets, and you're not in a hurry, you should build your own speakers. You'll get tremendous satisfaction from it, plus can make shapes not commonly commercially available like real tall towers, tall center channels, big subs and so on.

But you need to decide what form factors you want for each channel. With your current TV, tall towers on the sides and a matching center channel on TOP of the TV could be cool. If the towers were quite tall, they could still work when eventually your TV dies and you put a flat one on the wall. To be less obtrusive, the towers could be shallow.

Then again, you could build matched small monitor/bookshelves, 5 or 7 the same all around, plus a sub.

I'd recommend building a "done" design where the drivers and crossover have already been worked out, otherwise it is too complex for a novice. You can get a lot of recommendations here and on the other forums, once you decide the form factor and budget. You can also get help to repurpose those designs into your own cabinet shapes.

Budget wise, speakers last a LONG LONG time, so spend as much as possible and be done "forever." Your finances might dictate building only a couple channels at a time, or buying all the drivers at once (so they don't discontinue) but making cabinets and crossovers bit-by-bit later on. Main thing is to invest in the highest quality drivers.

--> Think about what you want, and then you can open up that whole can of worms!

Your receiver seems fine for now, but eventually you should move up to at least like a Denon/Onkyo/Yamaha with updated processing and Audyssey EQ, or the new Trinnov processing. More power and perhaps cleaner electronics would be a bonus, as would the ability to digitally decode HD audio streams.

Enjoy!!
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Old 30th January 2010, 06:48 PM   #30
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Oh, and don't gut the Mach Ones into other cabinets, they're just kinda classic as they are.
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