looking for an excellent loudspeaker that will handle power with good bass for rock and hairbands. recently sold my cerwin vega e715's and am looking for something comparable to them. i know they don't have the best reputation by many of you as well as me but they do good for what they are intended. looking for that volume but better sound. trying to stay with a budget of 1200.00(each) or less.vintage or new
How big of a room do you have? Amplifier power?
DIY or pre-built?
$1200 is a pretty good budget, lot of options here...if you had four amp channels, you could bi-amp a pair of Altec VOTT horns with 12" pro sound midbasses, would be a great setup for rock
Line arrays would be another route I'd check out...
DIY or pre-built?
$1200 is a pretty good budget, lot of options here...if you had four amp channels, you could bi-amp a pair of Altec VOTT horns with 12" pro sound midbasses, would be a great setup for rock
Line arrays would be another route I'd check out...
Amplification i currently have consists of a NAD 3140 and 2140 preamp,amp combo.I also have a sansui 9090 that i could use as a amp.Diy speakers are certainly an option if i had a reliable source of information as i am just a novice in speaker building. I am however very detailed orreintated and could handle the directions as long as they were pointing me in the right direction.Thank you for replying and helping me with this matter.
If you're interested in DIYing and have the tools and some skill, look at the Statements.
For simple 'buy something', the CV CLS215 and review.
The title says 1200.00 a pair but the post says each. If it is each, I personally would look to Dr. Geddes and figure out how best to spend that money. Few people have his knowledge of both loudspeakers and human hearing and perception. On the other hand if you want to set out on the never ending DIY journey of self discovery, I would agree with some of the others here that you should maybe start with something inexpensive and relatively simple. It is a good idea to build a full range or full range plus subwoofer system to give yourself a baseline value of what is possible for your level of invested time and money.
Well, first off clarify for us if you mean $1200/pr or $2200/pr.
Also you need to clarify your listening room and what form factor speakers you want. Can you use a corner horn? Tall towers? Mini-satellites and sub? Tall towers and sub?
If you can put a folded/tapped horn somewhere, THAT's the way to get huge cranking bass. What amp(s)/receiver do you have?
You should definitely focus on efficient components, and the toughest will be the midrange. You'd need something like the Audax PR170M0 6.5" Midrange
Audax PR170M0 6.5" Midrange - 100dB from Madisound
Then a tweeter that can keep up with that, and some kind of PA-style but good quality woofer (start another thread).
Alternatively, you could build my someday-with-a-different-house dream: A big pro woofer, plus compression driver on a big round horn, the Dayton H12RW 12" Round Waveguide 1" Threaded from parts-express.com. The ROUND waveguide, because round or elliptical have better sound (think about it, how can sound waves move smoothly along rectangular horns? Those are for directing the sound, not sound quality).
OR another interesting link I stumbled on:
Selenium Cabinet Designs At Parts Express - PA System Cabinet Design, Pro Sound, Speaker Building
really heavy duty stuff, sterilize you at 13 meters!
This is a cool link
www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/203dell2119-1.pdf
Adire is going out of business, but I think this design can still be built. You could always get help here.
Most of all, do NOT let anyone talk you into "normal" low sensitivity components. I can tell you want to CRANK UP THAT MOTORHEAD etc, and you won't be satisfied with that stuff. You really need like a very high quality PA design.
Good luck, feel free to PM
Also you need to clarify your listening room and what form factor speakers you want. Can you use a corner horn? Tall towers? Mini-satellites and sub? Tall towers and sub?
If you can put a folded/tapped horn somewhere, THAT's the way to get huge cranking bass. What amp(s)/receiver do you have?
You should definitely focus on efficient components, and the toughest will be the midrange. You'd need something like the Audax PR170M0 6.5" Midrange
Audax PR170M0 6.5" Midrange - 100dB from Madisound
Then a tweeter that can keep up with that, and some kind of PA-style but good quality woofer (start another thread).
Alternatively, you could build my someday-with-a-different-house dream: A big pro woofer, plus compression driver on a big round horn, the Dayton H12RW 12" Round Waveguide 1" Threaded from parts-express.com. The ROUND waveguide, because round or elliptical have better sound (think about it, how can sound waves move smoothly along rectangular horns? Those are for directing the sound, not sound quality).
OR another interesting link I stumbled on:
Selenium Cabinet Designs At Parts Express - PA System Cabinet Design, Pro Sound, Speaker Building
really heavy duty stuff, sterilize you at 13 meters!
This is a cool link
www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/203dell2119-1.pdf
Adire is going out of business, but I think this design can still be built. You could always get help here.
Most of all, do NOT let anyone talk you into "normal" low sensitivity components. I can tell you want to CRANK UP THAT MOTORHEAD etc, and you won't be satisfied with that stuff. You really need like a very high quality PA design.
Good luck, feel free to PM
Zaph's SB12.3
Should be a significant step-up from the Vegas while providing similar low freq. extension and "impact" (with a good amp). The quality of the drivers and the overall design are FAR better than the Vegas.
Final cost will likely exceed your budget depending on wood cost and how you finish the exterior of the speaker, but it shouldn't exceed it by much. (..and it also depends on if you are looking for upgrades to crossover components and/or Madisound's optional accessories package.) Make sure the floor coupling is good (..i.e. with some inexpensive floor spikes).
Zaph|Audio SB12.3 ~ SB Acoustics 12", Dual Midrange, 3-Way from Madisound
There are a lot of other good designs available out there, but none that provide what you are looking for quite as well as this design IMO.
Other sources include:
DIY Loudspeaker Projects
Humble Homemade Hifi
HTGuide Forum - Missions Accomplished!
Zaph|Audio
I agree that speaker would play plenty loud, and sound a lot better than most pro speakers. High sensitivity is not needed for a concert like experience, unless you have a huge room or something.
I was borrowing a pair of Ohm Acoustics Walsh 5s for a couple years and when I set my amp to "Reference Level" ("-0db") it created a similar experience to being at a live Ministry concert but was still very clean.
I'm (VERY slowly) working on a few other new speaker designs for myself and I plan to make at least one that will play as loud as I want in my fairly large room. I'm talking about when I want to "just turn it up for fun" - well beyond what I would think of as any kind of sane listening level...
The Zaph looks very nice, and I agree very likely a big step up in sound quality.
HOWEVER, in his current setup, I doubt they will crank as loud. 92 dB sensitivity speakers with a 40W NAD are not going to blast Black Sabbath into the next county.
- Of course, a big huge amp could make up some of the difference, although he'd be going from a 15" down to a 12" (admittedly not knowing their excursion capabilities).
- Or possibly actively biamp the Sansui to the Zaph 12" and the NAD to the mid/tweet. Would need some kind of crossover, which possibly could be passive, if the Sansui has main-in inputs.
The Cerwins have a spec of "102 dB at 2.83V" which is probably exaggerated, but still the actual sensitivity is probably a big chunk more than the Zaphs.
He also may like that PA-ish sound Cerwin designed for. So he may be happier with a higher quality PA style speaker than with a "hifi" speaker even if the hifi speaker is more "perfect."
millertyms, up to you. The Zaphs look to be very nice speakers, but you better get a serious 200+ watt amp to fire them up with, or biamp your existing stuff, or you simply will not be able to play as loud. If you don't want to change amps, better build more sensitive speakers or I guarantee you'll be unhappy.
We HAVE thought about it, and discussed it in these pages, thoroughly, with substantially the opposite conclusion....
There is no need to guess with Zaphs design on power handling, it's all here:
Zaph|Audio - SB12.3 3-Way Tower
At 32 watts at one meter ANECHOIC it provides 103 db at around 55 Hz. Depending on room gain, and irrespective of modal gain, you can enhance that by about 3 db. Then factor in boundary gain nearing 3 db for the floor at these freq.s. Also note that at these lower freq.s the effective rate of spl loss with normal "domestic" listening distance is very low.
The one thing that really does matter is the amplifiers current delivery, and even then, because this is not a bass reflex design, does not have quite the same draining effect from high impedance and reactive phase angle.
I'd estimate that the Vegas average around 94 db one watt one meter average. The "balanced" poly film tweeters produced rarely exceed 95 db on average, and I doubt the 5 1/4 inch mid did either. Factor in some insertion losses - and 94 db seems about right.
Also, millertyms, give a look here for ideas (I will someday also... need some time)
Manufacturers - diyAudio
Manufacturers - diyAudio
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Interesting that SB specify the sensitivity of the 12" ro be 90dB/2.83V
I posted a link earlier with independent measurements.
Have you actually heard the Cerwin's to decide if they are 'PA-ish' or is that just a presumption based upon looks? The review posted certainly didn't say that, and whilst I don't put a lot of credit in subjective reviews, it is certainly an unusual design vis mainstream speakers and it was well accepted. That alone makes it worth consideration in my book.
We been showing DIYers how to build <$1200/pair constant directivity waveguide 2-way speakers for nearly two years now.Damn Zilch, your everywhere!
[WAY <, that run with the big dogs....
]
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Brett, with all due respect, I've never heard a Cerwin Vega that didn't sound better from a distance.
Have you heard the CLS215? Maybe they got a new designer or something or just fluked it.Brett, with all due respect, I've never heard a Cerwin Vega that didn't sound better from a distance.
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