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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 12th January 2010, 01:38 AM   #11
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"can't they go loud enough with enough power and high enough crossover point to the
woofer ?"


That's where you get into trouble. They lack dynamic realism and the natural urge to turn it up to compensate just increases distortion. They can sound pretty and very revealing at moderate levels. If that's all you expect from your speakers ESLs will keep you happy.
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Old 12th January 2010, 01:57 AM   #12
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I've never seen or heard them. Each woofer has its own 200W amp. No way to tell from looking at them. Just because it has ART drivers doesn't mean they are well designed, well built, or have good sound. I'm only going on what I have personally owned or heard. I think some of the problem with ESL's is that the sound is spread out all over the large panel. Imagine a bass drum attempting to produce cymbals. Remember, the electrostatic panel is driving a mass of air. This air is a significant load and is more than the weight of the plastic membrane. Just for another exercise, calculate the displacement of an 8" woofer moving 1/4" each way and then calculate the displacement of a 12" by 36" ESL panel. Remember that the panel is only at peak excursion in the center, and that it is only moving within the confines of the front and rear stator screens. Also, remember that must maintain a certain clearance from either screen so it does not arc over. 3 kv/mm I think.
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Old 12th January 2010, 01:59 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Eckhardt View Post
"can't they go loud enough with enough power and high enough crossover point to the
woofer ?"


That's where you get into trouble. They lack dynamic realism and the natural urge to turn it up to compensate just increases distortion. They can sound pretty and very revealing at moderate levels. If that's all you expect from your speakers ESLs will keep you happy.
i thought the opposite was true.

when i heard MLs they were very dynamic and i kept asking the owner to turn them down a little but he kept turning them back up to uncomfortable levels.
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:00 AM   #14
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Also, the farther apart you place the screens for max excursion, the lower the efficiency. Until you need lightning bolts to drive it. By the square law just to make things worse.
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:09 AM   #15
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Which model, what amp, how big a room, what kind of music?
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by dshortt9 View Post
Which model, what amp, how big a room, what kind of music?
no i am talking about building speakers and selling them. its either i can make a universally perfect speaker or it's not worth bothering.

there are already plenty of very good speakers for every taste. making another one doesn't interest me.

i think ESLs come close to perfection but i don't know if they reach it ? if i could identify ESL flaws and determine that they can be fixed i would maybe try that. if not - not.

i don't want to be in the tweaking business - others are perfectly good at that. i don't want to compete with anybody, as Rockefeller said - competition is a sin

Last edited by Borat; 12th January 2010 at 02:20 AM.
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:19 AM   #17
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OK, Did not mean to wander off the subject.
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:21 AM   #18
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Can you define "uniersally perfect" a little more? Size, efficiency, price, etc?
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:30 AM   #19
Paul W is offline Paul W  United States
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They lack adequate output for life-like dynamics.
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Old 12th January 2010, 02:30 AM   #20
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Can you define "uniersally perfect" a little more? Size, efficiency, price, etc?
i don't know what cost has to do with this. its just stators and film - should cost next to nothing TO BUILD. but the selling price ? whatever the market will bear

size - whatever looks most awesome and still fits in a large living room.

universally perfect means free of the downsides that we can identify with existing speakers. faultless. for example full range ESLs we have identified as having narrow sweet spot and weak bass - so a faultless speaker couldn't be a full range ESL, it would have to be something else. as long as we can identify all the flaws i could probably work out a solution - that's why i am asking what do you perceive as the flaws ?

of course there is no such thing as truly faultless reproduction of an event in a room other than the room in which it originally took place. once we raise the bar of performance to this pseudo-faultless ( meaning, faultless as of our current understanding ) level we will be in position to start identifying new flaws. but that's irrelevant, because by that time it would be sold already

universally perfect means you send it to stereophile for review and they can only say vague things about it like it reminds me of this sort of wine or that but can't really find any hard incriminating evidence on it.

Last edited by Borat; 12th January 2010 at 02:41 AM.
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