Suggestions for 2-way kit using first order crossover?

[Apogee]

Hello all,

I'm looking for a decent, small, 2-way kit that uses a first order crossover on the top end.

These will be used as near-field monitors.

Yes, I could design and build something from scratch, but I was curious if anyone was aware of a kit already on the market someplace that offers lots of "bang for the buck."

It'd be awesome if the parts were less than $500...

Thanks,

Steve

[rabbitz]

The RB3 at Madisound might do the job even though the tweeter is not 1st order.

RB3-Kit, the 3rd Vifa “Recession Buster Kit MK3”, With Cabinets, Pair from Madisound

The only 1st order tweeter small speaker I know of is from the 2-way ref thread. It's not a kit so start at post #179.

diyAudio reference speaker project

The 2nd and 3rd crossovers are the pick as well as the crossover in post #180. The drawing is in post #195. I've used these nearfield with great success. Mine were built with the D27TG35 tweeter due to availability and the D27TG45 should be a tad better.

There should be some good candidates at Troels using Vifa, SEAS and Scan Speak. None use a 1st order on the tweeter.

DIY Loudspeaker Projects

Vance Dickason used to have a great studio monitor available as a kit through Parts Express but it's gone.

Parts Express Tutorials - The Vance Dickason LDC6 Studio Monitor Kit

Is there any reason why you want 1st order on the tweeter?

[Apogee]

To my ears, they sound better.

I have both Vandersteen 4's and Northcreek Rhythm Revelators.

Both use first order crossovers on the top and both are phenominal sounding.

They both do something better than 99% of other speakers that use other order crossovers.

Yes, I'm certain I will be told I don't know what I'm talking about or flamed. I say back, fine, build whatever you want.

I've learned to look for well engineered first order designs, and don't intend to stop. Hence, why I asked.

Thanks for the help!

[SGregory]

Don't give up on the first order. I am in your camp in regards to the sound. I am finding them to be tricky to implement right, but am VERY pleased with the results so far.

[rcw]

A thing to keep in mind about so called first order crossovers is that they are really third order crossovers because the drivers are inherently second order.

If you have a very large overlap then they can approach a true first order characteristic, but most of the designs published are basically sloppy third order ones and you might as well just make a proper third order crossover instead.
rcw.

[DougL]

You can also get 4Th order filters with a notch filter placed about 1 octave passed the crossover frequency of a "first order" filter. As far as I can see, its marketing, not engineering.

Just my 2 cents.

Doug

[Apogee]

Just wanted to say thanks for the info thus far!

My understanding on the difference with a first order network is it keeps the driver in proper phase. Not sure if this is what I'm hearing or not, but I swear they sound far better. I honestly don't think it's my imagination. IMHO, simply more musical, but agree, far, far more difficult to implement correctly.

And yes, I'm definitely talking about implementations that have been done correctly, not sloppily.

I was simply trying to save some time trying to find a decent kit that folks knew of. I know North Creek has a kit for a small monitor, so maybe I'll give that a go.

Just thought that I'd inquire as to others that are available.

Thanks again and please keep the ideas coming.

Regards,

[Inductor]

Pi Speakers has small (8") and/or professional speakers that you can choose from (not designed/intended as a monitor). Usually they are BR. Give also a look around.
Pi Speakers
KIT here Pi Speakers

Earl Geddes (@Importance of vertical polar response) gave me another idea (not a kit) for a monitor 4u, that would have a (like) Davis Acoustics TW26K2F-R Tweeter (crossed at 2k?, can not go very low because of Fs) with a first order to solve issues of phase, etc.

[Inductor]

Just to post technical detail for
Davis Acoustics TW26K2F-R
Fs=1kHz
¥¹¡¼¥Ñ¡¼TW¤ÎÏáʤ½¤Î£´¡Ë - Xenos Audio
http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/twe...2fr-p-596.html
I would also look for the Fostex
Tweeter Fostex FT48D
Fs=650Hz (can be crossed low)
http://www.toutlehautparleur.com/twe...8d-p-3339.html
Look also here with a 2″ Full Range (Visaton W170S and tweeter)
Visaton W170S and tweeter

[rabbitz]

Originally Posted by Apogee

To my ears, they sound better.

Understand exactly what you mean. Most of mine are 1st order series or AR series with 1st order on the tweeter and find the lower orders with wider overlaps sound better for me. Even though I use a lot of 1st electrical crossovers the final acoustic slopes are around 2nd order which is not a bad place to be.

There's always arguments on lower orders vs higher order and it really doesn't matter.... whatever works for the end user. In a post here years ago, someone wisely said to use the lowest order that gets the job done.