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Old 5th January 2010, 08:27 PM   #21
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Paper would be a more linear material than most rubbers correct? Seems any rubber may be the worst surround material with that criteria. So a coated paper surround with a coated paper cone might be a better option for a smooth break-up? Would a combination like that dissipate the most energy?

Thanks again!

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Old 5th January 2010, 08:31 PM   #22
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What features of a cone make it break up smoother? I know guitarists think a ribbed cone. Is this correct? Anything else?

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Dan
If your getting to the point of break up you are driving your speakers to hard and to destruction !
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Old 5th January 2010, 08:38 PM   #23
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If your getting to the point of break up you are driving your speakers to hard and to destruction !
Huh? I'm talking about the behavior of a driver when operating above it's pistonic range.

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Old 5th January 2010, 08:39 PM   #24
thadman is offline thadman  United States
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
Paper would be a more linear material than most rubbers correct? Seems any rubber may be the worst surround material with that criteria. So a coated paper surround with a coated paper cone might be a better option for a smooth break-up? Would a combination like that dissipate the most energy?

Thanks again!

Dan
I'm not sure how linear paper would be, especially if it was doped. I believe it can be classified as a composite, and as such, it will possess multiple interfaces which may contribute non-linear effects.

Foam is an interesting material. However, there were early issues with wear over the course of their lifetime.

Steve Mowry wrote two articles for Voice Coil magazine with regards to materials.

http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/.../mowry1208.pdf

http://www.audioxpress.com/magsdirx/...a/mowry109.pdf
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Old 5th January 2010, 08:40 PM   #25
rcw is offline rcw  Australia
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With a cone of the sort I described the surround as such has a variable width because above the piston range the outer parts decouple and become the surround.
There is a discontinuity between the actual surround and the decoupled part of the cone but materials such as damped bextrene and polypropylene, (and correctly formulated and damped cellulose composites, usually called papers), represent the minimum acoustic impedance anomaly to such materials as butyl and neoprene rubbers used in long excursion roll type surrounds.
The major discontinuity is then the surround to frame join.
The surround to cone interface is much more of an issue with materials such as Aluminium.
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Old 5th January 2010, 09:22 PM   #26
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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It is the surround itself that is the problem. It needs to be soft for a low resonance but the cone needs to be stiff for good piston range. The two things are at odds with each other and only various compomises exist. There is no ideal.
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Old 5th January 2010, 10:52 PM   #27
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So is there a material combination that will generally cause the smoothest break up in the FR and time domain?

Will all frequency response anomalies result in similar time domain anomalies? I am guessing they will.

Thanks again! This has been a very informative thread for me.

Dan
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Old 6th January 2010, 12:51 AM   #28
gedlee is offline gedlee  United States
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Originally Posted by dantheman View Post
So is there a material combination that will generally cause the smoothest break up in the FR and time domain?

Will all frequency response anomalies result in similar time domain anomalies? I am guessing they will.

Thanks again! This has been a very informative thread for me.

Dan
The trick is to have a gradual transition from the stiff cone to the flexible surround, because a sharp discontinuity, like that found in the large half role suspensions for high excursion, creates a very pronounced "rim resonance". A multiple role impregnated cloth surround appears to work best based on data that I have seen. The flatter multiple rolls have a much more gradual transition than a single large roll. And the impregnated cloth can be well damped.

One more thing - NOW we are talking about something in a driver that really does make a difference. All this Qts and Fs stuff is meaningless, linear BL, yada, yada, yada (shorting ring assumed, of course). It's how a driver handles the rim resonance that really makes a difference because this is always the first one. After that - in frequency - the cone just goes basically chaoitic and the radiation pattern is unusable. But a GOOD driver can get you right up to the rim resonance and still be useful.

Last edited by gedlee; 6th January 2010 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 6th January 2010, 01:36 AM   #29
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This is highly contentious way of addressing cone break-up issues but worth exploring.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques

Cheers,

Alex
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Old 6th January 2010, 01:55 AM   #30
thadman is offline thadman  United States
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This is highly contentious way of addressing cone break-up issues but worth exploring.
EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques

Cheers,

Alex
A minor mass redistribution has been observed to have a significant effect on the natural frequencies of turbine blades. I would assume enabl hopes to achieve something similar. However, the mass distribution applied to turbine blades was optimized through SIGNIFICANT numerical optimization with the aid of MASSIVE funding by the government. As far as I understand, a generic pattern is applied for enabl. How can one expect to achieve an optimum response if few (if any) of the parameters of the loudspeaker are considered when applying an enabl pattern?
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