That is consistent with what I've found too. For the price, the Celestions are a screamin' deal. For a bit more money, the BMS sound and measure better. The BMS is very very good. I have tried Selenium, but found there were better options for the same or less money.
Of course these are generalization based on a limited number of drivers. Augerpro has posted measurements, as have I. The best route is to buy three or four, measure them yourself, then sell the rest on Ebay.
Paudio has several that will work with a low freq. crossover provided the horn is suitably large enough for the lower freq. response.
P.Audio System Co., LTD
Parts Express also has one:
Parts-Express.com:*Dayton D1075T 75W Driver with 70V Transformer | paging paging horn horn driver pa stadium gym gymnasium commercial daypro70 daypro-41108 DayAudhorn11408
and MCM:
Midrange Driver Threaded 1 3/8 X 18 Thread 40W RMS | Distributed By MCM | DU-40 (DU40)
They are all "paging horn drivers" with paper (phenolic) diaphragms and suspensions, BUT that doesn't mean that they can't be good in a particular application beyond sound reinforcement.
I think the reason why most avoid them is:
1. they don't understand the size of the horn necessary to get the most from them,
2. they try to extend the upper freq. response of the driver - bad idea. (..figure 2 octaves *lower* than the rated high freq. response as a MAXIMUM upper freq. use that should be crossed about half octave below it depending on the low pass crossover).
3. they look at freq. response graphs not understanding that most are either NOT coupled to a suitable horn OR are coupled to a fairly small plane wave tube to get the response shown.
P.Audio System Co., LTD
Parts Express also has one:
Parts-Express.com:*Dayton D1075T 75W Driver with 70V Transformer | paging paging horn horn driver pa stadium gym gymnasium commercial daypro70 daypro-41108 DayAudhorn11408
and MCM:
Midrange Driver Threaded 1 3/8 X 18 Thread 40W RMS | Distributed By MCM | DU-40 (DU40)
They are all "paging horn drivers" with paper (phenolic) diaphragms and suspensions, BUT that doesn't mean that they can't be good in a particular application beyond sound reinforcement.
I think the reason why most avoid them is:
1. they don't understand the size of the horn necessary to get the most from them,
2. they try to extend the upper freq. response of the driver - bad idea. (..figure 2 octaves *lower* than the rated high freq. response as a MAXIMUM upper freq. use that should be crossed about half octave below it depending on the low pass crossover).
3. they look at freq. response graphs not understanding that most are either NOT coupled to a suitable horn OR are coupled to a fairly small plane wave tube to get the response shown.
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And many do.. BUT..
Because of the sd of the more typical driver (6, 8, 10, 12, 15 inches) the horn would either have to be gargantuan OR would only load to a relatively high freq. cut-off, and still would require a low expansion rate with a great deal of diffraction at that higher freq. cut-off. Upper freq. bandwidth can also pose a problem with these designs.
A 1 inch exit of a paging driver however could get by with a pretty low freq. cut-off and a modest expansion (or even a low expansion) and potentially remain domestically acceptable in size. In fact you could "push" the lower freq. cut-off low enough (below 80 Hz), that mouth diffraction isn't much of an issue with the driver's low freq. response and a suitable high-pass filter.
Subjectively this should provide a more detailed sound, but less dynamic - largely the result of less mass and less excursion.
BTW, IF anyone goes the "cone" route with a large horn, then this is a pretty good driver:
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/schede/ps.php?id=101010100
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That looks to be a nice midrange indeed. However, those little bumps on the impendance curve are looking odd. Also the rising curve itself is not a very good sign. On the other hand, there is little hope something significantly better can be found for this application...
edit: I was recommending earlier in this thread a look at PaulW solution: An array of cheap but low distorsion midrange drivers in parallel. This would be the first option I would investigate. It seems right: high sensitivity, low distorsion, huge power rating, even constant directivity, no diffraction.
edit: I was recommending earlier in this thread a look at PaulW solution: An array of cheap but low distorsion midrange drivers in parallel. This would be the first option I would investigate. It seems right: high sensitivity, low distorsion, huge power rating, even constant directivity, no diffraction.
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I've heard good things about the Celestion drivers, but have not trie them.
And for the record, I never said that the $17 Chinese copies were "as good as" the B&C, they weren't quite. I could make them as good without much trouble. The point was that at $17 each they were VERY cost effective if price is an issue and they proved that price was not correlated with performance. The P-audio drivers that I tested were not as good as the Chinese, but more expensive, still less than B&C, but again - no correlation. JBL about the same performance as B&C, much more expensive, and then there is TAD - price IS NOT an indicator of sound performance, even if they are gorgeous.
And for the record, I never said that the $17 Chinese copies were "as good as" the B&C, they weren't quite. I could make them as good without much trouble. The point was that at $17 each they were VERY cost effective if price is an issue and they proved that price was not correlated with performance. The P-audio drivers that I tested were not as good as the Chinese, but more expensive, still less than B&C, but again - no correlation. JBL about the same performance as B&C, much more expensive, and then there is TAD - price IS NOT an indicator of sound performance, even if they are gorgeous.
IMHO, herein lies the problem. I am happy with the Selenium 250's because I took the time to make myself happy. That didn't happen overnight. There are those who don't know how or simply can't and are forced to deal with the drivers that measure better from the start. I can't tell you how many caps, coils and resistors it took to get the job done. All in all, that 30 dollar driver met my needs because of patience and the fact that it had a high sensitivity before I had a go at it.
This reminds me of the WE 555 and 15A
And thanks a lot for sharing that interesting MCM 1" mid
Maybe it'd be a perfect match of the 15A horn 
Which 1" tweeter compression driver can safely and easily remove the rear chamber cover to allow safe dipole operation?
Has anyone experimented with a dipole 1" tweeter compression driver? Would a waveguide be required on both the front and rear?
Anyone see internet information on dipole compression drivers?
Has anyone experimented with a dipole 1" tweeter compression driver? Would a waveguide be required on both the front and rear?
Anyone see internet information on dipole compression drivers?
Attachments
Except for those ring radiators (without apparant back chambers), why not? If only the operation range is reasonably chosen, same as anything else.
For the radiating patterns, horns (WGs) on both side should be ideal (as shown elsewhere in the forum with planer tweeter). However, I'd guess the one for the back of compression driver would be hard to get right. Adding a proper phase plug on the back of existed compression driver should be very difficult (for average DIYers). Without the phase plug, the response of the rear must be somewhat different from the front. As to how significant it would be, we'll never know by guessing.
I'm planning to try DE250 (or CP380M) with the rear cap removed and let it sing both sides, but I've not yet figure out the WG at the front, let alone the one at rear. I think there should be someone try it sooner than I...
For the radiating patterns, horns (WGs) on both side should be ideal (as shown elsewhere in the forum with planer tweeter). However, I'd guess the one for the back of compression driver would be hard to get right. Adding a proper phase plug on the back of existed compression driver should be very difficult (for average DIYers). Without the phase plug, the response of the rear must be somewhat different from the front. As to how significant it would be, we'll never know by guessing.
I'm planning to try DE250 (or CP380M) with the rear cap removed and let it sing both sides, but I've not yet figure out the WG at the front, let alone the one at rear. I think there should be someone try it sooner than I...
This reminds me of the WE 555 and 15A
And thanks a lot for sharing that interesting MCM 1" mid
Your Welcome!
I think there is "gold" here, with a bit of modification and the right type of horn and crossover.
IMO the biggest limitation is the size of the horn relative to the LOW-pass filter and the tweeter (..and presumably its horn as well). In other words CTC spacing and combing issues. It would almost certainly require a narrow vertical horn and some directive "aligning" vertically with the tweeter and mid (..like an arc'ed array), for "focusing" the horns to a particular listening position. Of course IF the mid horns design is narrow vertically then chances are it isn't a conical shape, and for the average DIY'er that entails a whole host of engineering and fabrication issues.
At the moment the screamin' deal in compression drivers seems to be the Celestion CDX1-1425. $60 from QSC, for some reason they charged me only $45 when I ordered mine. Offers 75% of the performance of the BMS 4540ND for less than half the price.
Patrick,I've put the Celestion("screamin' deal")on my list,give me some recomandations on CD(BMS....or something else cheaper but good) that I'll could use below the 2500-3000 Hz crossing-on the Celestion(I've read about 2500 Hz minimum crossover on them)??????By the way how do you use them,at what point in frequency range do you have the crossover???
Or anyone of you guys if you have sugestions in what CD I have to choose in 600-700 Hz---2500-3000Hz to use them with the Celestion CDX1-1425???
Thanks in advance!
Patrick,I've put the Celestion("screamin' deal")on my list,give me some recomandations on CD(BMS....or something else cheaper but good) that I'll could use below the 2500-3000 Hz crossing-on the Celestion(I've read about 2500 Hz minimum crossover on them)??????By the way how do you use them,at what point in frequency range do you have the crossover???
Or anyone of you guys if you have sugestions in what CD I have to choose in 600-700 Hz---2500-3000Hz to use them with the Celestion CDX1-1425???
Thanks in advance!
If you are going to use the celestion driver the logical choice for waveguide would be this QSC horn (direct from them as well):
QSC PL-000446-GP (drivervault)
Measurement with Celestion driver seen here:
Celestion CDX1-1425 (drivervault)
There is also the RCF H100 for a lower freq. cut-off.
QSC PL-000446-GP (drivervault)
Measurement with Celestion driver seen here:
Celestion CDX1-1425 (drivervault)
There is also the RCF H100 for a lower freq. cut-off.
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Hi Cal
I meant my comment in a bit different sense. I don't think that the $17 Chinese driver could have been fixed with external components because it was a design and build issue. But if there is only frequency response issues then yes, I agree, you can fix just about anything.
Hello,
Just for checking: Is the QSC PL-000446-GP having a 1.4 throat? I ask because the Celestion CDX1-1425 seemes to have a 1.4 exit (and they are part of the same system, so they should fit). If so, how did augerpro tested the 1" B&C compression drivers (b&c DE250, B&C DE160, DE12) on the QSC PL-000446-GP?
Am I missing something?
Thanks!
Just for checking: Is the QSC PL-000446-GP having a 1.4 throat? I ask because the Celestion CDX1-1425 seemes to have a 1.4 exit (and they are part of the same system, so they should fit). If so, how did augerpro tested the 1" B&C compression drivers (b&c DE250, B&C DE160, DE12) on the QSC PL-000446-GP?
Am I missing something?
Thanks!
Look at the product sheet:
http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/pdf/CDX1-1425.pdf
Specifically a 1.4 inch VC and a throat exit of 1 inch.
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