2 way + full range omni -- worth a try?

[jmar]

I've been really taking a lot of time trying to decide what to do about a speaker project because I want something that I'm thoroughly happy with.

Here are my "decisions" --

(1) I like an omnidirectional sound (I know, give me a hard time). I feel that the standard procedure of a pair of speakers pointing at you is JUST THAT -- "a pair of speakers". The more precise the image, for me, the more I have listener fatigue -- the more clinical and less realistic the "image" becomes. Especially for classical, but really for ALL types of music, a multipoint ambiance changes the game completely. A 4 sided tower arrangement away from the wall or the old Ohm speakers are good examples. (NOT the Bose 901 (hate em) -- it wasn't omnidirectional !)

(2) I like the idea of full range speakers and I have some near field sealed monitors that blow me away. BUT -- there is no high end "sizzle". The cymbals are buried and I haven't heard a fullrange high end that will do what my Vifa tweeters will.

(3) I like just a touch of mixed mono subwoofer bass below 100hz or so -- not much, just enough to fill in the image. Why try to build it into the speaker when it's so easy to do with a sub? Besides, there is added yet subtle omnidirectional effect with a center subwoofer.

(4) I must have a SEALED enclosure. I've always preferred the smoothness of a sealed system over a ported.


NOW -- with all that in mind, I have this weird system that I'd like to consider.

At first, I thought of just doing something like the full range 4 sided "chubby tower" and adding a tweeter on the front (I know, wrong group) but you can't go sealed for one.

What appeals to me is something like this (very odd) --

A standard 2 way sealed enclosure with a front facing 6 1/2" woofer and my Vifa D27TG tweeter.

On TOP of that, in a separate (sealed) chamber of their own, either (2) 4" full range drivers shooting out each side or (3) with an additional rear firing driver.

I have never seen an "omni" speaker with just a front and 2 sides (of course, not really omni) and have always thought that leaving out the rear may not make much difference -- and you could put them closer to the wall.

The tweeter also could either be mounted in the box with the woofer or in the upper box with the full range speakers. probably would sound better close to the woofer in the bottom box.

Also possible, (2) 6 1/2" woofers for the bottom box. (I have some Goldwood drivers that work great in a sealed box and sound damn good).

The crossover would be 12db 2nd order for the tweeter only which Vifa recommends.

The woofer would be in parallel with the all the full range speakers without any low end crossover.

SO --

What do you think?

Am I nuts or what?

[picowallspeaker]

......Dipole ?!?

[Cal Weldon]

As the frequency rises it becomes more directional so you'll have to do it with your tweeters also. If you just want some ambient sound then one front one back works nicely.

[Jim Shearer]

<<<I have never seen an "omni" speaker with just a front and 2 sides (of course, not really omni) and have always thought that leaving out the rear may not make much difference -- and you could put them closer to the wall.>>>

What you describe is my 1974 RTR 280DR speakers. Take four 10" woofers, five 2.5" cone tweeters and one piezo tweeter. On front & sides place one 10" with a tweeter above & below--front gets piezo on top. The last 10" is mounted down facing over plinth, driven through a reverse phase bridge (IIRC.) Sealed system. Just what you want!

Cheers, Jim

[Ian J]

Nearest thing I've seen like this is one of the larger Castle models - I think it was the Harlech (or Howard?). This has standard 2-way front firing in a tapered 1/4-wave line with another driver which looked just like the woofer firing upwards in its own tapered 1/4-wave line (I think line frequencies were matched so that ripple cancelled) but the upward-firing woofer ran 'full-range' without xo(in effect to about 5k or so).
I'm nor sure I get the bit about running your front mid-bass(es) with out crossover - do they have a nice natural roll-off?
Ian

[jmar]

Yeah the castle is nice and my second choice but I want even more "ambiant" sound.

I'm not talking about (4) "2 way" systems in a box.

ONE 2 way facing front and full range drivers on the sides.

The advantage is "less" high end from the full range speakers and more of a concentration from the Vifa.

Not to mention the simplicity of the xover design and the advantage of the smoothness from the full range speakers.

AND -- (2) individual boxes to keep the woofer (and vice versa) from interacting.

I think I'm going to go ahead and build it.

Maybe drop the 3rd full range and just have 2 fire from the sides.

[jmar]

Also --

that's what I wanted to hear a comment on.

the rolloff of the woofer.

there are some that are more suited to be run without a crossover aren't there?

love these goldwoods but other ideas?

[jmar]

actually, the reason I want to do this is I actually have 4 boxes of 4" near filed cubes that I played with in conjunction with my old 2 way EPI speakers.

When I put 2 cubes facing the sides it was GREAT!

And like the castle, I tried just one facing up etc.