Hi,
first post here - go easy on me haha.
I'm looking to build a pair of reference monitors for my home studio which will be used as my main speakers for all mixing/mastering. The key goal is that they are incredibly revealing, portraying every sound as accurately as possible so as to show up any faults in a mix, artificats in a recording or other nasties. The idea being that these speakers would play back 'what is there' and then I can use a selection of other speakers to represent average playback systems, such as bass-less car stereos etc etc.
Since this would be my first speaker build project, I'm almost certain that I'll have to use an existing design/kit, as I simply don't beleive I can design anything to meet my high expectations without years of experience.
So my question is, does anything like this exist? I will also be building my own amps (either passive or active design), probably based around Hypex modules, what about bi-amping?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
first post here - go easy on me haha.
I'm looking to build a pair of reference monitors for my home studio which will be used as my main speakers for all mixing/mastering. The key goal is that they are incredibly revealing, portraying every sound as accurately as possible so as to show up any faults in a mix, artificats in a recording or other nasties. The idea being that these speakers would play back 'what is there' and then I can use a selection of other speakers to represent average playback systems, such as bass-less car stereos etc etc.
Since this would be my first speaker build project, I'm almost certain that I'll have to use an existing design/kit, as I simply don't beleive I can design anything to meet my high expectations without years of experience.
So my question is, does anything like this exist? I will also be building my own amps (either passive or active design), probably based around Hypex modules, what about bi-amping?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Regards
Hi Jim. Thanks for the reply, those look like very interesting speakers, however, I was a little worried by the comments that they struggle in the low bass. From my perspective, extreme bass (< 60Hz) is just as important as any other part of the frequency range. I've mixed a song on thin sounding monitors that sounded great until I checked them on a large PA system, where I realised that all of the bass EQ I had been applying had accumlated right down to 35-45Hz and created a rediculously boomy mix.
This is a small speaker I built a few years ago that has the sort of chracteristics you nedd..
Small satellite loudspeaker system.
This system is intended for a filter assisted alignment that optimises power handling and produce a lot of clean sound from a small box.
Using a Zaph design with such a box to optimise power handling for monitoring is something to look at.
rcw.
Small satellite loudspeaker system.
This system is intended for a filter assisted alignment that optimises power handling and produce a lot of clean sound from a small box.
Using a Zaph design with such a box to optimise power handling for monitoring is something to look at.
rcw.
How about Orion or Pluto?
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
You didn't mention budget, btw. I assume there is a limit ...
Linkwitz Lab - Loudspeaker Design
You didn't mention budget, btw. I assume there is a limit ...
An active DSP crossover like the DCX2496 allows for very steep crossover slopes and room-specific precision EQ for incredibly flat frequency response. (It's also a very good DAC - just feed it a digital output from your workstation, and you're effectively done.) Combine with bi-amping for the monitors, and you have a very nice setup.
A really nice setup would be a Behringer DCX2496 with some MTMs in sealed boxes using ScanSpeak dome tweeters with waveguides and Seas Excel 8" woofers, with a Rhythmik Audio 15" subwoofer (or, ideally, one per channel.) Or you could build it open-baffle using either two or four super-high-excursion subwoofers per channel (Peerless XXLS, for example) in place of the sealed Rhythmik sub.
Alternately, you could use the above setup open baffle, but you'd need some truly enormous woofers.
A really nice setup would be a Behringer DCX2496 with some MTMs in sealed boxes using ScanSpeak dome tweeters with waveguides and Seas Excel 8" woofers, with a Rhythmik Audio 15" subwoofer (or, ideally, one per channel.) Or you could build it open-baffle using either two or four super-high-excursion subwoofers per channel (Peerless XXLS, for example) in place of the sealed Rhythmik sub.
Alternately, you could use the above setup open baffle, but you'd need some truly enormous woofers.
When you say "reference monitor" I think of something along the lines of a big JBL monitor - horn loaded treble and big, efficient woofers that can deliver both the full frequency range and full dynamic range of the mix. I assume you mean something similar, not near-field monitors for the soundboard.
For a refined, semi-DIY approach to that concept I'd say go with a pair of the Gedlee Abbey or Nathan kits (Loudspeakers), along with two or preferably three subs to handle the deep bass. Lots of discussion about those here! Not cheap, but should be very capable of giving you what you need. Note that the subs are not optional, the Gedlee speakers are not designed to go deep on their own, and one sub will probably not give you the smooth bass response you need no matter how good it is.
Another kit to look at would be Wayne Parham's Pi 3 or Pi 4 (Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance). Again, waveguide loaded tweeter and large pro woofer, with a couple of upgrade options depending on your budget. Messrs Parham and Geddes take what look like similar approaches, but disagree on the details enough that it's worth studying each of their design decisions.
For a budget approach that will rely a little more on you for completion, look up the Econowave project at Audiokarma and use that waveguide/compression driver combined with your (preferably high-efficiency) 12" woofers of choice and subs to taste. You should be able to pull together some pretty good mains for $400/pair or so. I have a set of E-waves with cheap P. Audio woofers, and while they aren't the most refined speakers on the planet, they aren't half bad for their low cost.
Also look at Brandon/augerpro's Eminince/QSC design at Can you smell what Brando's cooking!? - AVS Forum. He went with a nicer compression driver and woofer than the average Econowave, selected after some extensive testing. Looks like a very nice system.
Happy hunting!
Bill
For a refined, semi-DIY approach to that concept I'd say go with a pair of the Gedlee Abbey or Nathan kits (Loudspeakers), along with two or preferably three subs to handle the deep bass. Lots of discussion about those here! Not cheap, but should be very capable of giving you what you need. Note that the subs are not optional, the Gedlee speakers are not designed to go deep on their own, and one sub will probably not give you the smooth bass response you need no matter how good it is.
Another kit to look at would be Wayne Parham's Pi 3 or Pi 4 (Pi Speakers - unmatched quality and state-of-the-art performance). Again, waveguide loaded tweeter and large pro woofer, with a couple of upgrade options depending on your budget. Messrs Parham and Geddes take what look like similar approaches, but disagree on the details enough that it's worth studying each of their design decisions.
For a budget approach that will rely a little more on you for completion, look up the Econowave project at Audiokarma and use that waveguide/compression driver combined with your (preferably high-efficiency) 12" woofers of choice and subs to taste. You should be able to pull together some pretty good mains for $400/pair or so. I have a set of E-waves with cheap P. Audio woofers, and while they aren't the most refined speakers on the planet, they aren't half bad for their low cost.
Also look at Brandon/augerpro's Eminince/QSC design at Can you smell what Brando's cooking!? - AVS Forum. He went with a nicer compression driver and woofer than the average Econowave, selected after some extensive testing. Looks like a very nice system.
Happy hunting!
Bill
The Altecs of old have been replaced with speakers that can reproduce similar SPL with much less distortion. Most of the ones I've seen use a silk dome tweeter in a waveguide, one or two cone midrange drivers in yet more waveguides, and several enormous woofers.
Thanks for all the input guys, I'll do my best to respond to you all as best as I can.
Really, I need a good compromise between the two. The monitors will definitely be near-fields (listening distance ~1.2mtrs, at tweeter level), and I would like as much of the full frequency range and dynamic range of a mix as is reasonably possible.
To give you an idea, here's a pic of the room:
Dimensions are 4.2mtrs long x 3.1 mtrs wide.
When I was initially shopping for near fields, I decided that this speaker just about perfect for me, in terms of size, specification and price:
ADAM A7 - U.K. International Cyberstore
So, regarding budget, I would consider my maximum budget to be the price of a pair of those (~£700), that is assuming that the speakers are passive.
I have been holding that thought in mind while doing my research, but I feel that, providing the amount of design is kept to a minimum, instead relying on the research and plans of more experienced people then I, then I don't see how I couldn't knock together a pair for a few pennies less then I'd spend on buying some, plus I'd have the satisfaction of knowing that everything I hear is playing through my own handiwork.
Really, I need a good compromise between the two. The monitors will definitely be near-fields (listening distance ~1.2mtrs, at tweeter level), and I would like as much of the full frequency range and dynamic range of a mix as is reasonably possible.
To give you an idea, here's a pic of the room:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Dimensions are 4.2mtrs long x 3.1 mtrs wide.
When I was initially shopping for near fields, I decided that this speaker just about perfect for me, in terms of size, specification and price:
ADAM A7 - U.K. International Cyberstore
So, regarding budget, I would consider my maximum budget to be the price of a pair of those (~£700), that is assuming that the speakers are passive.
I have been holding that thought in mind while doing my research, but I feel that, providing the amount of design is kept to a minimum, instead relying on the research and plans of more experienced people then I, then I don't see how I couldn't knock together a pair for a few pennies less then I'd spend on buying some, plus I'd have the satisfaction of knowing that everything I hear is playing through my own handiwork.
Strange looking tweeter on that unit, is it a ribbon?
Adam stuff seems expensive, I'm sure you could build something better sounding for less money.
Do you need much bass below 40Hz? If so, you may end with huge boxes.
I use Event TR8's, which are budget monitors, they appear to have skimped with the amp modules, as one of mine burnt out.
I'm now running them passive, and they do seem give enough output for me from 40Hz up.
I think a simple design would be best, a 2-way with 8" cone and silk tweeter, bi-amping would make for a simpler design also, if you have something like a DCX to make use of.
That's exactly what I am thinking.
It's a ribbon with some sort of filter in front of it, it's one of their own company 'secrets'.
Well I think it will end up being a case of compromise. I would like extremem bass, but it seems that it's diminishing returns on anything below 40 Hz, so if I just aim instead for accurate reproduction of music from 40-20,000Hz, then anything below that is a bonus.
I think a simple design would be best, a 2-way with 8" cone and silk tweeter, bi-amping would make for a simpler design also, if you have something like a DCX to make use of.
Yeah, that sounds perfect to me. Like I said, I don't have enough experience to choose the right drivers or design a cabinet, but if there is an existing design out there which meets my criteria, then I'll go for that.
Since I would like to build my own amp as well, I thought perhaps building something like this crossover and using these amplifier modules to get a biamped system, all in a huge 19" rack case.
If you use the ESP module, it is perfectly adequate for most domestic purposes, but if you do want a very accurate speaker, you get better results from configuring one of the filters as a bi-quad.
This removes the drivers roll of characteristics from the filter and you get very close to an ideal L-R all pass characteristic.
With waveguide loading on the tweeter you can adjust the acoustic centers so you get them to coincide exactly between the two drivers.
To do this you need to measure the drivers you are going to use in the box.
You then design a suitable bi-quad that gives an second order characteristic at the required crossover frequency.
Linkwitz has a suitable design on his page, these are sometimes known as the "Linkwitz transform" circuits.
rcw.
rcw.
This removes the drivers roll of characteristics from the filter and you get very close to an ideal L-R all pass characteristic.
With waveguide loading on the tweeter you can adjust the acoustic centers so you get them to coincide exactly between the two drivers.
To do this you need to measure the drivers you are going to use in the box.
You then design a suitable bi-quad that gives an second order characteristic at the required crossover frequency.
Linkwitz has a suitable design on his page, these are sometimes known as the "Linkwitz transform" circuits.
rcw.
rcw.
NEVER buy retail brand factory completed speakers if you can help it and are a DIYer. The expert (not the company) DIY consumers and people that are regulars in the TechTalk forum at Parts-Express do this daily.
Most of the projects for studio monitors and higher end speakers these regulars in that forum do (they are NOT employees or associated with PE at all) are state-of-the-art and good values.
Most of the projects for studio monitors and higher end speakers these regulars in that forum do (they are NOT employees or associated with PE at all) are state-of-the-art and good values.
Are you referring to this? I must admit that the majority of that article goes well above my head in terms of technical level.
I have two pairs of Sony MDR-7506's, which I find useful for precision checking, but next to useless for mixing. I simply can't create a balanced mix on headphones, everything ends up having too much presence and not enough seperation.
Interesting article, thanks. The Adam A7's are quite rare in that they receive almost universal recommendations for studio near field use, so they are a good target to aspire to.
I am by no means an expert DIYer yet, but I'm 18 and heading off to study Electronic Engineering at uni next year, so I figured that by the time I'm moving into my own house then I should be using my own gear too.
Probably right. My dad used to do live sound and so we have a JBL PA system stored away. Out of curiosity, could I incorporate a paire of JBL MP418S 18" subs into a studio monitor setup? It's a bit of a daft idea I'm sure, since those monsters are designed for huge output live sound, but you never know
Thanks for all the help guys.
Much food for thought.http://www.jblpro.com/pages/mi/series_400_tbl_B.html
Well you could. Still only good down to about 40Hz, tho. But you'd have lots of energy all the way down! You'd have to be careful, your mixes might end up bass shy on all other speakers.
I'm in the camp that says this isn't a great idea for your first build. Not unless you find a kit or published design that gets lot's of praise for use as a nearfield monitor. Should be able to find something....
Still only good down to about 40Hz, tho. But you'd have lots of energy all the way down! You'd have to be careful, your mixes might end up bass shy on all other speakers.I'm in the camp that says this isn't a great idea for your first build. Not unless you find a kit or published design that gets lot's of praise for use as a nearfield monitor. Should be able to find something....
if you put that 2241 18" in a bigger box (~10 cu ft) you can get quite low. It is a very capable woofer.
You could also use the existing box, lower the tuning frequency, and use some eq (resonant HP on the tuning frequency), as was done on the B460:
1983 JBL SUBWOFFER DESIGN
The MP418 box looks really small, so you would need a lot more EQ than the B460...
You could also use the existing box, lower the tuning frequency, and use some eq (resonant HP on the tuning frequency), as was done on the B460:
1983 JBL SUBWOFFER DESIGN
The MP418 box looks really small, so you would need a lot more EQ than the B460...
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