I have recently aquired a pair of tannoy eatons, 10" hpd's in reasonably small ported cabinets.
I like them, but am wondering if there are any better cabinet designs around?
Ive been searching the net for hours every night but cant find anything for these drivers, its all about the 12's and 15's
Any thoughts?
If i cant find anything, is it worth damping/bracing the origional cabinets?
Everything ive read about moding tannoys says the best mod is bigger cabinets but i cant find anything to go on.
Thanks.
I like them, but am wondering if there are any better cabinet designs around?
Ive been searching the net for hours every night but cant find anything for these drivers, its all about the 12's and 15's
Any thoughts?
If i cant find anything, is it worth damping/bracing the origional cabinets?
Everything ive read about moding tannoys says the best mod is bigger cabinets but i cant find anything to go on.
Thanks.
I found the Driver parameters Here
tannoy
I then entered the Parameters into WinISD Alpha
QES 0.26
QTS 0.23
FS 26 Hz
VAS 0.2 m3
BL 11.2
RE 5.8 Ohm
WinISD then calculates the missing Parameters
You can then model up a Ported Cabinet.
I found that 150 litre box worked reasonably well tuned to 35hz
This gives the same shape of frequency response curve that you might expect from the Tannoy 15"
2 X 100mm ports would be suitable.
You would have to decide what size box you can live with and play around with the variables.
tannoy
I then entered the Parameters into WinISD Alpha
QES 0.26
QTS 0.23
FS 26 Hz
VAS 0.2 m3
BL 11.2
RE 5.8 Ohm
WinISD then calculates the missing Parameters
You can then model up a Ported Cabinet.
I found that 150 litre box worked reasonably well tuned to 35hz
This gives the same shape of frequency response curve that you might expect from the Tannoy 15"
2 X 100mm ports would be suitable.
You would have to decide what size box you can live with and play around with the variables.
Attachments
That is the kind of shape of sim i patently avoid... either it is tuned too low or the box is too big (or both).
Brett's method is going to get you the most... I'd tend towards an aperiodic mid-TL thou.
dave
Please don't get to upset about the shape of the response in my sim it was only meant as a quick example of what is possible. I overcooked the bass port resonance and made it a bit too large.
To get a flat response from a Tannoy dual concentric you will be looking at a very small box with poor bass extension. The bass response starts to sag in an enclosure over 45litres or so.
Inspiration for the large cabinet size comes from here
Tannoy Monitor Gold Cabinets
This shows a cabinet for the Monitor Gold 12" from 75 to 150 litres,
And a cabinet for the Monitor Gold 15" at 300 litres!
The Original Tannoy Dual Concentric speakers were produced before TS parameters came into use for speaker design. They are designed for large cabinets, and to be placed in corners. This helps with the sagging LF response.
Please note the sizes of the modern equivalent dual concentric presteige series.
The Tannoy Kensington (10" driver) is a 105 litre cabinet.
The Tannoy Westminster Royal (15" driver) is 530 litres
a big vented box tuned low can sound good.
But 35Hz from that 10inch driver is just too low.
You must eliminate the hump and try to find a slowly falling LF response.
If you go for a slowly falling response it will sound bass light. It really needs a low bass driver to augment it. Now you are designing a 3way. But, it could be excellent.
But 35Hz from that 10inch driver is just too low.
You must eliminate the hump and try to find a slowly falling LF response.
If you go for a slowly falling response it will sound bass light. It really needs a low bass driver to augment it. Now you are designing a 3way. But, it could be excellent.
download WINisd pro.
It's excellent, intuitive and has lots od different outputs to enlighten your knowledge on how your driver will perform in open space.
In a room a humped response will lead to unnatural voice and that tendency to one note bass really does not sound nice. WINisd cannot tell you how it will sound in a room. That's down to experience.
It's excellent, intuitive and has lots od different outputs to enlighten your knowledge on how your driver will perform in open space.
In a room a humped response will lead to unnatural voice and that tendency to one note bass really does not sound nice. WINisd cannot tell you how it will sound in a room. That's down to experience.
For bass, under a couple of hundred Hz, which is where you're talking about for the aux driver, it's straighforward. Throw the 10" in 20L or so, sealed. It's not going to be critical.
Some people like WinISD, but I find it klunky and prefer Unibox, also free but requires Excel. Either will give similar calculated results, just depends on what interface you prefer.
Brett is absolutely right on. I have a pair of these and LOVE them in my sealed cabs with the Tannoy PS350 subs. In fact, I think the little 10" HPD is the crown jewel oif them all......there's something magical about the way 10's do the mids...better than a 15 or 12, in my opinion. That driver in a sealed cab is the punchiest thing, I swear! My love for the little 10" HPD, (and pics of my cabs) are on the Tannoy Yahoo site. Enjoy!
Well, I guess you could build something like the coveted Cornetta, but is wasn't designed for the HPD series....yet I see no reason why they wouldn't perform admirably in those cabs. However, the little HPD 10's (295) mate beautifully with a sub at ~70hz in a sealed cabinet of about two cubic feet. Damp and brace the cabinet well or it will sound boomy and "one noted". The low bass drops like a stone in sealed cabs, so don't expect it to respond to notes way down there. The benefit is that the midbass is so articulate and powerful in that scenario- one could live without subs for a while. In fact, I did not have subs with my little 10's for several months and was content. Then, I bought a PS350, and wondered how I ever lived without it! So much depends on your preferences in music, how far away the speakers will be placed, and so forth, but the HPD10 can be a "stand alone" speaker in many cases.
Once you have them in a proper cabinet, I would focus ($$) on the crossovers before seeking a sub (or two). The 10 has wonderful midrange that (to my ears) drowns out the high and low frequency extremes a bit too much. The series inductor on the low frequency (2.1mH IIRC) can be replaced by one with a lower DCR (I used Alpha Core 12awg and dropped the DCR by half!). This makes the bass drier and cleaner- also a bit more pronounced. You'll like the results, trust me. Then raise the treble setting to +2 to help balance it out, and replace the 1.5uF series cap in the high frequency leg with something smooth (obbligatto, Jupiter, Clarity "blues", etc). I'm telling you- this is a winning plan! You'll thank me. Good luck!
Once you have them in a proper cabinet, I would focus ($$) on the crossovers before seeking a sub (or two). The 10 has wonderful midrange that (to my ears) drowns out the high and low frequency extremes a bit too much. The series inductor on the low frequency (2.1mH IIRC) can be replaced by one with a lower DCR (I used Alpha Core 12awg and dropped the DCR by half!). This makes the bass drier and cleaner- also a bit more pronounced. You'll like the results, trust me. Then raise the treble setting to +2 to help balance it out, and replace the 1.5uF series cap in the high frequency leg with something smooth (obbligatto, Jupiter, Clarity "blues", etc). I'm telling you- this is a winning plan! You'll thank me. Good luck!
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Sounds like a plan to me
Ill re-home the 10's first, then mod the xover, then add a sub.
You will not be disappointed, I assure you.
There exists two versions: PS350B has balanced inputs and foot switching, and the PS350 is RCA and for domestic use. They are exactly the same other than those two minor differences. Tannoy made them (USA), and they are remarkable subs. 'Remarkable', in that it is easily the most natural, unobtrusive, musical "sounding" sub I have ever heard. It plays Very low, but does not draw any attention to itself, very unlike the current trend of jackhammer subs on the market. I often question when this sub is on. Then I switch it off and the whole musical foundation drops out of the picture- testament to both functionality, and the ability to integrate seamlessly with the 10's. It's a gem. Don't get me wrong- it's not shy on performance. There are times when I'm listening to stuff you wouldn;t think had much low frequency energy in the mix, and suddenly it sounds like a large piece of excavation equipment began to work on the front lawn. It's never not too much; just right. It's a 15" driver housed in a cabinet with the same bracing and build technique as the DMT series, and powered by an efficient 350W BASH amp. It won't win any beauty contests, but it makes up for that in sonics.
Click HERE for a review on the PS350B (scroll down).
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Really? That's terrible! I have not modeled that particular driver, but still....
Those drivers are notorious for not having much bass. The thing is, they are more than capable of producing it, but there is something amiss in that driver...(voice coil depth?) The 15" version is better, but it was often housed in huge flimsy cabinets (even the FSM's were not braced) that gave them a "boomy" reputation. Those drivers also have a bit of a HF coarseness, which some people believe is the result of a shorter horn and no compensation for it in the crossover (engineering SNAFU?). Perhaps it was Tannoy's attempt to raise overall HF presence (??); after all, Tannoy changed the dustcap vent space on those drivers. See Phil Short's article on the subject here. The upsides of that driver are that they are built really well and don't seem to suffer the same manufacturing glitches HPD's had. No matter, Tannoy's are still the very best!
The Eaton Cabinets have an internal volume of 30 litres
the Port is tuned for about 50Hz as far as I can see.
http://44bx.com/tannoy/images/Eaton.gif
If you sealed the port (without damaging your cabinet) you will get an rough idea what you could expect in a proper sealed box.
Reducing the volume to 20 litres is optimal for a mid top box, this actually will increase the effficiency above 90-100hz when compared with a 30 litre box.
The Crossover modifications are certainly worthwhile, if you are looking at these speakers as probably the best pair of drivers that you will own, rather than a collectors piece.
HPD 295 Crossover circuit here...
tannoy
I found that replacing the first capacitor in the HF section (4.7uF in your crossover) gave the most improvement to my Monitor Gold 15" drivers. The 1.5uF cap is a frequency compensation cap, but does make a difference.
You say that you will have a full wood workshop to build some new boxes. Have you any ideas yet on what materials and type of construction you would be happy with?
the Port is tuned for about 50Hz as far as I can see.
http://44bx.com/tannoy/images/Eaton.gif
If you sealed the port (without damaging your cabinet) you will get an rough idea what you could expect in a proper sealed box.
Reducing the volume to 20 litres is optimal for a mid top box, this actually will increase the effficiency above 90-100hz when compared with a 30 litre box.
The Crossover modifications are certainly worthwhile, if you are looking at these speakers as probably the best pair of drivers that you will own, rather than a collectors piece.
HPD 295 Crossover circuit here...
tannoy
I found that replacing the first capacitor in the HF section (4.7uF in your crossover) gave the most improvement to my Monitor Gold 15" drivers. The 1.5uF cap is a frequency compensation cap, but does make a difference.
You say that you will have a full wood workshop to build some new boxes. Have you any ideas yet on what materials and type of construction you would be happy with?
On the other hand they do 29Hz (-3dB) in a 200L ported box, they just don't like sealed cabs.
Neither matters to me as I cross them at 175Hz to a couple of Volt RV3143s in t/l cabs. I measured them to be +-2dB 20Hz to 20kHz in room.
And since it's all active any possible short-comings in the original xover do not concern me either. But removing the deep bass from the DC does clean up up the mid-range nicely! The hf still gets a bit coarse eventually but at that point you'd have to shout into each others ears to communicate and things keep falling off the shelves!
Btw I know Phil from the Tannoy Yahoo group. Might have met you there as well, who knows?
Neither matters to me as I cross them at 175Hz to a couple of Volt RV3143s in t/l cabs. I measured them to be +-2dB 20Hz to 20kHz in room.
And since it's all active any possible short-comings in the original xover do not concern me either. But removing the deep bass from the DC does clean up up the mid-range nicely! The hf still gets a bit coarse eventually but at that point you'd have to shout into each others ears to communicate and things keep falling off the shelves!
Btw I know Phil from the Tannoy Yahoo group. Might have met you there as well, who knows?
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