Advice wanted..... (noob... ouch!...)

[m2]

Hi guys, (sorry for the long post.... but better be thorough than not...)

I've looked around on the forum and tried to get a grip on these questions but they still remain. I'm basically a long time lurker and I'm hoping to diy my first set within the next 4 months, time and budget permitting.

The intended uses for this just so you know where I'm coming from: I'm an audio engineer by profession and I'm thinking of getting a new space and setting up a room to work in. We're not talking top dollar room, but not lowest quality at all. As a matter of fact, there is a lowest level of quality I need to obtain in order for it to be worthwile to me. The practical uses would be critical listening of music and other audio (dialog etc when editing) and then mixing. I see a potential problem practically in trying to satisfy both music and film, so I'm currently thinking one surround system that is good enough without being "fantastic", and a close/medium range system that is for critical listening and enjoying full range music in stereo.

Here are my questions:

Does anybody here have any real world experience with diy speakers that compares to pro-audio studio speakers (Dynaudio, Genelec, Adam etc; NOT the NS-10's or similar) and if so do you get comparable performance for less money (disregarding time spent of course)? What are your experiences?

What's the consensus (hah, that's funny!) when comparing home theater to pro-theater systems? In my experience, the viewing/listening experience varies in commercial theaters, but do your home systems generally perform as well or better (acoustics in room disregarded)?

Has anyone followed pro-specs such as THX or Dolby for acoustics/electronics?

I see people go for 2-way systems most of the time (?) and I wonder why there aren't more people building 3-ways. I've seen the argument that the crossover becomes expensive and complicated at that point, plus that the design of the cabinets becomes problematic too. This all makes sense to me. But then someone pointed out that by bi-amping the system one is instead "back to" a 2-way + a woofer.

So:

1) How many people Bi-Amp their 3-ways?
2) How many people TRI-Amp their 3-ways?
3) How many people Bi-Amp their TWO-ways?

And what are the additional issues of price, design and overall value of doing it?

How different is a Bi-Amped 3-way to a 2-way + subwoofer (i.e total 2 amps anyways), in terms of soundquality etc?


If you made it down this far then I thank you greatly for your patience!!!


If you have any advice to give me, I thank you even... grea.. greatlier...er....!!!!

thanks, mattias

[Moondog55]

Plenty of posts here to cover all of those questions, so happy reading.

You will find that members here have 1 squiillion different opinions on what makes the best speaker and without some design guidelines and a budget you can't get definitive answers and even the definitive answers will be different depending on who is willing to give advice.

I use Behringer CX 2310 and CX 34** active XO and which have fixed 4th order Linkwitz Riley slopes, I think they are great but only if you use them for cutting the bass so I tend to use them below 300Hertz.

Personal opinion follows[-

A bad speaker is a bad speaker, a good 2-way is better than a bad to average 3-way, a good 3-way is much cleaner in the midrange than a 2-way, best speakers are 4-way but the bass needs to be huge on that bottom octave so think 18 inch sub-woofers 12 or 10 inch bass drivers and 4 or 5 inch mids with a tweeter capable of going to 40k

Did I mention that this was a personal opinion and I am NO expert

[R-Carpenter]

This is a huge question that probably requires a book or two to answer.
Read through the posts and search the forum.
Personally I build my own home theater system that performs better then that I hear in the theater. It's not that hard depending of cause on your woodworking skills. In the movie theater, speaker system has to cover large area and of cause it's not a problem in your average listening room. If you can use room equalization software, then all EQing can be done in the receiver or a SS decoder.
Then you talking about tri-amping the speaker, are going after an active crossover or just a simple passive with 3 amplifiers driving?
3 way speaker is harder to build but performs cleaner.
Then you talking about professional studio monitors, is it flat FR and low distortion you after or something else?
Basically, if you can build and design yourself, you could build a very nice system outperforming commercial offerings at a fraction of the price.
Are you familiar with speaker design and measurement software?

["Q"]

Originally Posted by m2

What's the consensus (hah, that's funny!) when comparing home theater to pro-theater systems? In my experience, the viewing/listening experience varies in commercial theaters, but do your home systems generally perform as well or better (acoustics in room disregarded)?

I would refer you to the pro-sound vs. Hi-fi thread here.

Originally Posted by m2

So:

1) How many people Bi-Amp their 3-ways?
2) How many people TRI-Amp their 3-ways?
3) How many people Bi-Amp their TWO-ways?

While I can't give you any real world numbers i can tell you that most of the tri-amping in the world is done by the pro sound people. That said, bi-amping and tri-amping have so many advantages that its ridiculous. The only down side I know of is cost.

[Michael Chua]

Originally posted by m2
The practical uses would be critical listening of music and other audio (dialog etc when editing) and then mixing.

Any idea on the room dimensions. What is the anticipated distance between you and the main speakers.

[m2]

First of all, thank you so much for bearing with me! I know a lot of newbies ask alot of questions so I really appreciate your patience and effort to help!!!

[m2]

Originally Posted by R-Carpenter

This is a huge question that probably requires a book or two to answer.
Read through the posts and search the forum.
Personally I build my own home theater system that performs better then that I hear in the theater. It's not that hard depending of cause on your woodworking skills. In the movie theater, speaker system has to cover large area and of cause it's not a problem in your average listening room. If you can use room equalization software, then all EQing can be done in the receiver or a SS decoder.

Thanks for your input Carpenter. Yes, more reading is definitely required on my part. Just looking for general opinions of people around here.

Good to see you've had such success with your HT systems. Definitely the answer I was hoping for. And looking for a software EQ to compensate for the room could be a worthwile compromise. Since the critical listening I will be doing will be done straight from my Digital Audio Workstation inserting a linear-phase EQ should be possible (if not ideal).

Originally Posted by R-Carpenter

Then you talking about tri-amping the speaker, are going after an active crossover or just a simple passive with 3 amplifiers driving? / 3 amps /
3 way speaker is harder to build but performs cleaner.
Then you talking about professional studio monitors, is it flat FR and low distortion you after or something else? / "ruler flat" and "zero" distortion... as close as possible/
Basically, if you can build and design yourself, you could build a very nice system outperforming commercial offerings at a fraction of the price.
Are you familiar with speaker design and measurement software? / Not really, just trying to find an approach to all of this... At least I'm not a total knucklehead though.../

[m2]

Originally Posted by "Q"

I would refer you to the pro-sound vs. Hi-fi thread here.

Thank you Q, this was probably a thread I missed while searching (weird!)....

Originally Posted by "Q"

While I can't give you any real world numbers i can tell you that most of the tri-amping in the world is done by the pro sound people. That said, bi-amping and tri-amping have so many advantages that its ridiculous. The only down side I know of is cost.

Sounds good to me - thanks for the input!

[m2]

Originally Posted by Michael Chua

Any idea on the room dimensions. What is the anticipated distance between you and the main speakers.

Not entirely sure. I'm still looking for a space. My guess is that it will be at least 10x15 feet, in which case the monitors for critical listening will be near-field monitors sitting pretty close to me to get as little room influence as possible.

If I could get a bigger room I wouldn't mind moving the close monitors a bit further away. I guess we're talking moving them from about 1 meter to 2-3 meters.

Thanks for your time!

[R-Carpenter]

If I may be so bold, I'd suggest MTM or BMTMB to minimize room reflections. Possibly with active crossover.
As far as 0 distortions, there's nothing that has 0, there are some with less distortion and some with more hence the character of the loudspeaker. High quality drivers with good power handling and low distortion are probably a good idea. Scan Speak and Seas would be my choice. Well build cabinets that don't color the sound and have low acoustic output are a must for any reference class system.
If you don't plan on investing significant amount of time in to speaker design research, you could build a well known design also.
You'll need a measurement microphone such as Behringer ECM 8000 preferabli calibrated and software like ARTA, Sound Easy or Holmi Impulse. Holmi is free, ARTA is free without "save". As a sound engineer, I am sure you have a mixing console with phantom power for the mic.
I am sure other people will chime in as far as minimizing room reflections.