I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[janneman]

Originally Posted by Panicos K

WRONG.My opinion is that you just don't dare to try what I have described above and tell us honestly what you will hear.And you know why?Simply because you will HAVE to agree with Andre and me,and then no one will take you seriously either.....wrongly though.You just choose to hide your head behind measurements.What Andre says about biwiring with 12 awg and 16 awg will be heard by ALL.Will any of you DARE at last?

Well if it is heard by all, that then settles it doesn't it? I mean if there is no doubt, why continue to test it?

I thought it is reasonable to first get a feel for the issue and then determine whether it is worth it. If the measurements (which cannot be discounted so easily as an unreliable, uncontrolled, anecdotal listening test by one or two guys) show a substantial difference, I'm willing to invest some time. Not on a ghost hunt.

Edit: If the measured differences are substantial, I may even agree right away that they would be audible. Howszat?

jd

[SY]

Not on a ghost hunt.

And not if it involves spending money. So I'll freely admit to never having tried the fraudulent devices from Kait or sending money to the nice Nigerian fellow.

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by janneman

Well if it is heard by all, that then settles it doesn't it? I mean if there is no doubt, why continue to test it?

I thought it is reasonable to first get a feel for the issue and then determine whether it is worth it. If the measurements (which cannot be discounted so easily as an unreliable, uncontrolled, anecdotal listening test by one or two guys) show a substantial difference, I'm willing to invest some time. Not on a ghost hunt.

jd

Doing the test as suggested above,you will hear the difference.But it seems you are trying to avoid it.There is a danger in this test,and that is to have measurements that show very small difference,but hear big difference.What is stopping you from doing a listening test before you measure anything?Is it a scientific crime?By not listening to anything before you get a "substantial difference" as you say,it simply shows you just don't dare to put your belief in measurements in doubt.After a test like this,the ghosts may be hunting you,not you them

Just seen your post SY.DO the biwiring test with a cheap 12awg and a cheap 16awg wire.You will still hear the difference clearly.

[SY]

Panikos, will your suggested experiment work with a multiamp system (e.g., mine)?

[janneman]

Originally Posted by Panicos K

Doing the test as suggested above,you will hear the difference.But it seems you are trying to avoid it.There is a danger in this test,and that is to have measurements that show very small difference,but hear big difference.What is stopping you from doing a listening test before you measure anything?Is it a scientific crime?By not listening to anything before you get a "substantial difference" as you say,it simply shows you just don't dare to put your belief in measurements in doubt.After a test like this,the ghosts may be hunting you,not you them

I am not trying to avoid it, I'm telling you I will not do it without any reasonable indication it is worth my while.

I think I made my reasoning clear. If you chose to use words like 'simply shows you just don't dare to put your belief in measurements in doubt', there's not much I can do. Certainly these words will not propel me to suddenly do the test. You need to try better .
Try 'religious' for instance, I understand some are sensitive to that

jd

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by SY

Panikos, will your suggested experiment work with a multiamp system (e.g., mine)?

If you have separate inputs for lows and highs on your speakers,yes.If your speakers have three inputs,use the 16awg wires mostly on the mid and high inputs.This will show the differences easier,although you may not necessarily like the result in the final sound.

SY,we are talking about same amplifiers for each speaker input,right?

[Jakob2]

Originally Posted by janneman

I am not trying to avoid it, I'm telling you I will not do it without any reasonable indication it is worth my while.

I think I made my reasoning clear. If you chose to use words like 'simply shows you just don't dare to put your belief in measurements in doubt', there's not much I can do. Certainly these words will not propel me to suddenly do the test. You need to try better .
Try 'religious' for instance, I understand some are sensitive to that

jd

I understand your position, but sometimes you have to try anyway. Just to see, if your premises were right, if the simplification that every model implies are justified (especially for this case) and so on.

It is the only countermeasure against running in circles.

Wishes



P.S. Maybe that you need a "triple blind" to listen against your bias.

[Andre Visser]

Originally Posted by SY

Then why did you fling out the 33% number? Wjhat's the scale and what's the relevance?

Only because someone said we can forget about skin effect at audio frequencies, I'm not so sure that we can, that's all.

Originally Posted by SY

Frequency response IS something demonstrated audible; you have yet to specify any other factor that's relevant to the minor change in cable impedance (thousandths of an ohm) at high frequencies.

Sure FR is audible but it is not where you will find the effect of cable dia on HF. Whatever the effect is that I hear with larger dia cables on HF just happen to correlate with non-linear group delay. The loss in definition and detail have nothing to do with amplitude it is more like garbled information.

Originally Posted by SY

So I take it that the answer is, no, you don't know how to calculate frequency response?

SY, I'm to old for playing games, try your children.

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by janneman

I am not trying to avoid it, I'm telling you I will not do it without any reasonable indication it is worth my while.

I think I made my reasoning clear. If you chose to use words like 'simply shows you just don't dare to put your belief in measurements in doubt', there's not much I can do. Certainly these words will not propel me to suddenly do the test. You need to try better .
Try 'religious' for instance, I understand some are sensitive to that

jd

You have your "religion" and I have mine.As for your time sure you can spend it any way you choose.But tell me something.What is the reason to test something if measurements show big and audible differences?On the contrary,when measureable differences may be small but audible differences may be big,that should be of much interrest especially for the scientific minded.I wonder what other reasons are there to stop you,if "fear" is not one of them.In the worse case you won't be able to hear any differences.

[Andre Visser]

Originally Posted by Jakob2

P.S. Maybe that you need a "triple blind" to listen against your bias.

Perhaps he must also include a speaker change as a control.