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Old 25th October 2009, 04:46 PM   #7291
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Your earlier objection raises an excellent point that on reflection seems incredible has stood for so long; the notion that only those who attended the recording are valid commentators on its accuracy and by extension on the sound of the playback chain. If a recording sounds like no probable instrument in no probable (or possible) space as so many do, I'm comfortable calling it inaccurate without ever stepping in the performance space.
I was listening to Beethoven's Triple Concerto (1970 LP) today(Oistrakh,Rostropovich,Richter contucted by Karajan).If you wish to judge this LP for FR"accuracy" you'll be right to give it 5 out of 10 Yet,the whole sound comes sooo natural that it really gets 10/10.I wasn't there and I don't know how they sounded there.But recordings like this are very rare for me.As for the performance part,well.............no comment.I wish all recordings were like this one.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 04:54 PM   #7292
Key is offline Key  United States
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If two sounds were the SAME with the exception of say a little HF extension,the comments would be about FR.But "air,depth,resolution etc..."are the key factors of the dissagreement between "believers" and "non-believers".That is why comments are as you describe them.A "believer" can comment on FR if that is what he/she hears,I assure you.After all it is the easiest comment to do when such differences are the issue
Somehow I doubt this. Basically when I mess with FR , Time, Phase I get results just like the ones reported by audiophiles.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 05:07 PM   #7293
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Somehow I doubt this. Basically when I mess with FR , Time, Phase I get results just like the ones reported by audiophiles.
Perhaps using words like "believers,unbelievers and audiophiles" as you and I did ,is a generalization and this is wrong,so I will speak for my self.I understand what you say about FR etc...,I just expect you to understand that I do.I have no problem whatsoever to accept differences related to FR,Phase......,I'm not sure though that you can accept that In fact,I wish that all could be corrected by EQ.Sadly though,the problems don't seem to be there.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 05:16 PM   #7294
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Default Soundmaster

Hi ,

Cables do make difference - but if my system is cheap whats the point - its like using a good loud exhaust on a low powered car.

A good system using good cables & you have done justice to your system to deliver sound to your expectation.

Good luck
 
Old 25th October 2009, 06:04 PM   #7295
Key is offline Key  United States
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Perhaps using words like "believers,unbelievers and audiophiles" as you and I did ,is a generalization and this is wrong,so I will speak for my self.I understand what you say about FR etc...,I just expect you to understand that I do.I have no problem whatsoever to accept differences related to FR,Phase......,I'm not sure though that you can accept that In fact,I wish that all could be corrected by EQ.Sadly though,the problems don't seem to be there.
What problems are we talking about here and how do they manifest? Give me a sound problem that you would solve by means of a cable and I will tell you a better way to do it with dsp, LCR, time manipulation, or some other means.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 06:19 PM   #7296
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Of course.
Your earlier objection raises an excellent point that on reflection seems incredible has stood for so long; the notion that only those who attended the recording are valid commentators on its accuracy and by extension on the sound of the playback chain. If a recording sounds like no probable instrument in no probable (or possible) space as so many do, I'm comfortable calling it inaccurate without ever stepping in the performance space.
Its easy calling something inacurate, labeling it accurate is another story.

I probably should have been more specific. Are these single stereo mic recordings?

Do you believe the reason for these poor recordings are the mic cables?
 
Old 25th October 2009, 06:39 PM   #7297
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Somehow I doubt this. Basically when I mess with FR , Time, Phase I get results just like the ones reported by audiophiles.
Agree, and FR includes more than easy to hear 6db/oct roll offs: small narrow notches, subtle comb filtering (like every pair of speakers produces with a sound in the middle), phase/time effects are used all the time to artificially expand the sound stage. Certain distorions can seem to "improve" some sound. Get a DSP box and educate yourself on how these things change sound in more subtle ways than most people believe.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 06:46 PM   #7298
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Agree, and FR includes more than easy to hear 6db/oct roll offs: small narrow notches, subtle comb filtering (like every pair of speakers produces with a sound in the middle), phase/time effects are used all the time to artificially expand the sound stage. Certain distorions can seem to "improve" some sound. Get a DSP box and educate yourself on how these things change sound in more subtle ways than most people believe.
Yep, I can think of more than a couple of ways to distort the sound in a euphonic way that I actually find to sound great or addictive. I could easily put some of these things in a little box or even hidden in the skin of a cable and you would have a hard time noticing these tricks as inaccuracies unless you did very fast A/B switching. And I dare say the average audiophile would just pick the one that sounds the best - which I bet would be my cable which distorts the signal in a pleasing manner.
 
Old 25th October 2009, 06:58 PM   #7299
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What problems are we talking about here and how do they manifest? Give me a sound problem that you would solve by means of a cable and I will tell you a better way to do it with dsp, LCR, time manipulation, or some other means.
I guess what takes to do this, will cost more than my cables
I have tried EQ some times to see if what I didn't like was just FR.Part of it was,the rest(harmonics,decay,effortless dynamics,voice naturalness)wasn't.
I'm of those who claim they can hear cable direction*.And those who also hear this,know very well how different the "same"cable can sound

* Twisted pairs,unshielded,so it has nothing to do with where the shield is connected.I have tried this dozens of times.

I have never claimed that any cable has solved any problems in my system.What I claim is that I can make an easy choice between cables for my system.And my cable choices were results of blind testing,despite some here said we were peeking.

Last edited by Panicos K; 25th October 2009 at 07:04 PM. Reason: +++
 
Old 25th October 2009, 07:07 PM   #7300
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Edit: BTW, many specialty recording companies used high-zoot cable, if I'm not mistaken at least far back as Sheffield.
Cant find any info on high-zoot cable. Can you help?
 

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