I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by cbdb

And in all my years in studios, Ive never heard this expression. Which makes me think its more marketing speak.

Not marketing but it is used extensively by audio reviewers and audiophile listeners to describe the scenario that I stated earlier. I do not understand why some of you are trying to equate it to an "anechoic chamber" though. That is "dead sounding" to me with that type of analogy. Rather not listen in that type of environment :-)

[rdf]

With no intent of discounting your experience cbdb, having worked with production engineers for a generation mine is audio and production are very much non-overlapping magisteria. I can't recall one producer describing sound in terms more detailed than boomy/thin, bright/dull, noisy and distorted. Or even using the term 'detailed'. Production and home audio and related but production engineers, musicians and audiophiles approach sound in very different ways.
If a system change ever caused for me an impression (spurious or not) of 'different black level', it's always been topology or circuit components, never cables.

Curly, I'll see your 1980's and raise you a mid-Seventies. You might be right, for me using 'black' as 'quiet' is still nonsensical on multiple levels.

[cbdb]

Why not just call it what it is: noise floor. (or S/N) Oh yeah,Marketers.
And one more time, cables dont add any significant noise! And dont start with the bybye(money) filter ** again.

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by cbdb

Why not just call it what it is: noise floor. (or S/N) Oh yeah,Marketers.
And one more time, cables dont add any significant noise! And dont start with the bybye(money) filter ** again.

Have you ever listen to them before? I know, you can not measure what they are doing, so you do not believe :-) I am so glad that I do not try to fit things into little boxes and know what things do before i even give them a chance.

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by rdf

Curly, I'll see your 1980's and raise you a mid-Seventies. You might be right, for me using 'black' as 'quiet' is still nonsensical on multiple levels.

Read the Absolute Sound, Stereophile, IAR, etc. This term has been around longer than I have been in audio. I am just saying that i did not invent it, I just borrowed it

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by cbdb

Why not just call it what it is: noise floor. (or S/N) Oh yeah,Marketers.
And one more time, cables dont add any significant noise! And dont start with the bybye(money) filter ** again.

One reason that therm came about is to allow lay people a means to better understand what is happening. Noise floor means something to you as you understand what it is, but the average magazine reader could care less about "noise floor" or understand what it means to music listening. The analogy I presented, makes it easy for someone to "see' what you are trying to describe in words.

[cbdb]

I can't recall one producer describing sound in terms more detailed than boomy/thin, bright/dull, noisy and distorted. Or even using the term 'detailed'

The job of producers is the music not usually the sound quality (and the music, IMO is more important), quality is the recording engineers responsibility (but many a producer will undermine the engineer(loudness wars)), and when engineers compare gear they do use terms like detail, imaging, air, presence, grain,resolution etc. (at least the ones I know do.) Producers on the other hand: "can you make the bass more chocolatey" or "can you make everything louder than everything else".

Using words to describe audio is like using words to describe poetry, the people in the conversation need common ground (which should be obvious from this black background talk). I see the same words on these forums meaning different things than in the studio. We need a dictionary of sound adjectives.

[cbdb]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

One reason that therm came about is to allow lay people a means to better understand what is happening. Noise floor means something to you as you understand what it is, but the average magazine reader could care less about "noise floor" or understand what it means to music listening. The analogy I presented, makes it easy for someone to "see' what you are trying to describe in words.

For a salesman your kinda condecending to lay people. Is noise such a hard concept to understand (or signals getting lost in it)? And as is obvious from the past few pages your term is anything but clear, and I think thats the point!

[rdf]

Originally Posted by cbdb

Why not just call it what it is: noise floor. (or S/N) Oh yeah,Marketers.
And one more time, cables dont add any significant noise! And dont start with the bybye(money) filter ** again.

Because it's not noise. I haven't had a system with audible noise at the listening position since my Bell & Howell portable cassette deck. And one more time to forestall further misunderstanding, in bold:

"If a system change ever caused for me an impression (spurious or not) of 'different black level', it's always been topology or circuit components, never cables.

Are you really arguing I don't recognize the sound of noise?
Looks like I need to be more careful too, in my sphere of commercial production the terms producer and engineer are interchangeable, a bit of consternation for those of us with iron rings.

"Using words to describe audio is like using words to describe poetry...."

Arguably true of any perception. To give Pearson his due, that was his original intent 30+ years ago with TAS. The degree of that success is evident here.

[Key]

Originally Posted by cbdb

Using words to describe audio is like using words to describe poetry, the people in the conversation need common ground (which should be obvious from this black background talk).

"Talking about music is like dancing about architecture" is my favorite versions of that.

One of my favorite quotes of Hendrix's is kind of like the producers you talk about.

"Well there's one song on there we did a lot of sound on...We put the guitar through the Leslie speaker of an organ, and it sounds like " Jelly Bread"" Hendrix