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Multi-Way Conventional loudspeakers with crossovers

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Old 30th September 2009, 10:11 PM   #6211
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Originally Posted by BudP View Post
Enough so that small single drivers can, except for matters of volume and low bass performance, handily exceed the performance of multi driver systems, designed and built with care by folks who frequent this forum. These products of skill and thought have absolutely nothing to apologize for, they just did not have what the Fonken's had.
That reminds me of what I heard at BAF 2007. I'd heard a number of good speakers and checked out of the main audition room for a while. I was chatting with folks in the smaller room when I heard something really good from the main hall, so I put the conversation on hold and had a look. It was a tall baffle with a single 8", but on a small jazz vocal combo it sounded right. Came back to my interlocutor, the audition room went through another few speakers, then something else sounded really fine. Went back again, and sure as hell it was another small speaker in a large box, this time with a tweeter to help above 10 kHz.

What got up my nose double was that I've been working on a big multiway system, yet these theoretically compromised things did such an excellent job on small groups that, for a moment, I reconsidered my love of large-scale music. The impulse passed, but the single drivers at BAF 2007 were an education. The only thing I heard which matched them for vocal coherency was a triamped rig with linear-phase crossovers, but that's a whole other level of complexity.

Sometimes less is more.
 
Old 30th September 2009, 10:17 PM   #6212
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Originally Posted by Andre Visser View Post
Interesting Salas, I've never tried a coaxial speaker cable, will have to get some.

I could not find a 2803.
I'll bet you can find mini RG-8, also called RG-8X. Run four of those in parallel to get the equivalent of 10 gauge.
 
Old 30th September 2009, 10:32 PM   #6213
jlsem is offline jlsem  United States
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and this included a pair of Geddes waveguide speakers.
Not much of a challenge.

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except for matters of volume and low bass performance
Mid-bass suffers as well, not in terms of response but weight. A 4 1/2" driver simply cannot move enough air.

I rest my case.

John
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Last edited by jlsem; 30th September 2009 at 10:35 PM.
 
Old 30th September 2009, 10:57 PM   #6214
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"...delivers all the emotion of your performance without loss, coloration or exaggeration. With our Platinum cable, you'll discover the most explosive dynamics, inner detailing, and complex articulation available from your instrument - as it should be. Exhibiting the highest level of transparency, purity, and power - no matter what your style - the new Platinum cable reveals it all as you've never heard before. You'll hear greater articulation from solo passages, along with wider dynamics and frequency response."

Found this copy on some audiophool cable website. What hilarity!

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Old 30th September 2009, 11:03 PM   #6215
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Mid-bass suffers as well, not in terms of response but weight. A 4 1/2" driver simply cannot move enough air.
Yup, unless of course it is loaded with resistance ports from Scott Lindgren's fertile mind.

With room gain, all that is missing is the 30 to 20 Hz region and mid 30's and up are very satisfying. I am, trust me, very surprised by these little things. And then, there is the bell like clarity and a full 90 db of clear, coherent information.

Bud
 
Old 30th September 2009, 11:04 PM   #6216
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Unfortunately, single-driver speakers (especially small ones) represent a road that dead-ends in a short distance.

John
John.

I do think that single drivers offer some advantages over multi-way for vocal and jazz music and small small ensembles. No they are no where as dynamic, but they have coherency in spades. I believe that they are an acquired taste. They also offer a great speaker system for the SET crowd where hi efficiency is a plus. I heard one pair with a SET system that I thought were very natural and definitely cohesive. Very musical if I must say! Scott and Dave in the Full Range forum look like that they are creating some great speakers that seem to have the single driver fans really excited. I was considering give one of the designs a try and build a SET that I have some transformers for laying around here somewhere :-)

Last edited by Curly Woods; 30th September 2009 at 11:19 PM.
 
Old 30th September 2009, 11:22 PM   #6217
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One of the most interesting single driver systems I ever heard used some WWII vintage drivers and pentode SE amps from the same era. It pretty much fell apart on large ensembles and dynamic music, but wow was it ever sweet on string quartets and small-scale vocals! Not real, but very attractive and easy.

Having lived with an unconventional single driver system (full range linesource ESL) and a multiamped 5-way system (though admittedly the midrage driver covers the vast majority of where the music is), I have to say that it would be tough to give up the sheer dynamics and ease of the Big Boy. Though maybe it was the change of cables from orange to black that did it....
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Old 30th September 2009, 11:23 PM   #6218
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BudP, did these speakers have FR125 drivers in them? FR125 can sound quite nice when used full range.
 
Old 30th September 2009, 11:47 PM   #6219
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These were Planet 10 Fostex Fe 127 eN drivers.... the dreaded EnABL process leaking out into the sort of mainstream....kinda.

I have to say, that on an organ recital, some of Bach, these little things filled a 30 by 60 by 12 foot room, with very convincing bass. Not the floor shimmer that truly powerful systems will provide. But for quality, depth of field and sheer dynamic presentation, they were just amazing.

It seemed ridiculous to me that this could be so, and then Rene' put on Contate Dominae, with organ, and male and female chorus hammering away. The Fonkens just brushed aside all seeming effort and provided a room full of very detailed, very beautiful and powerful music.

And then I had Rene' play Ferd Groffe's orchestration of Gershwin's Rhapsodiy in Blue, conducted by James Levine and sporting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. I hope you have heard this, it is stunning. Even the fortissimo piano passages, with full tilt CSO, playing at loud levels, didn't seem to be any thing difficult.

Quite a few witnessed this too, one Terry O, a noted skeptic on this forum, comes to mind. I suppose I could get folks to come and provide praise, but that really sort of misses the point, since none of you could be there to be personally surprised. I had no idea they could play at this level, they never get above 80 dB in my living room, and usually much quieter than that, so I was not prepared for what they delivered.

Bud
 
Old 1st October 2009, 12:05 AM   #6220
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Unfortunately, single-driver speakers (especially small ones) represent a road that dead-ends in a short distance.
They make really good (and versatile) mids when you want to push them further than they go by themselves.

dave
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