I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[Passion]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

Thank you for your input Passion.

Thank YOU, Curly.

R

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Passion

The experiment is showing the actual magnitude of losses for all cables, and there is no exaggeration of any effects. Believe or not, losses in a high-quality cable can be 20dB lower than those in a low-cost one.

Here I’m showing how different cables can be, which is the point of my post.

Cheers,

R

Your point is an exaggeration and you might not be reading your own attachment properly because there is no truth in saying one cable can be 20dBs lower then another cable...none at all!!

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

Doug, why is that people when put into situations where they must make decisions, fail? There must ne some psychological reason for this phenomena? Has that ever crossed your mind, rather than calling people names or calling them out because you can not prove what they hear? I simply find it odd that many of you get so ballistic over something that you do not believe, and lose your minds with rage when it is suggested as possible. I think Passion, myself and others are as interested as anyone to find out the basis for the differences that we hear. There is simply far too many people that hear differences for it to be a mass brainwashing of music lovers.

First, where have I called anyone a name....that has been your job it seems on here.

Nor do I care about anyone's beliefs...this is NOT RELIGION! This to me is all about audio science and if you think you heard a difference then it should be validated...if you choose not to go through some extra work that is your decisions but again all I ask is that people TRY to control all the external variables involved.


As for too many people to be brainwashed.....more people own BOSE then any high end system PERIOD. Yes people can be EASILY fooled in the world of audio. Its well known that Audio is just like the diet pill market in terms of subjectivity and placebo effects. Education is key, Im ready to learn, are you?

You can talk around the simple idea of CONTROLLING the listening tests with all comments but its still the crux of the issue.

Do you control your listening tests properly?

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by doug20

First, where have I called anyone a name....that has been your job it seems on here.

Nor do I care about anyone's beliefs...this is NOT RELIGION! This to me is all about audio science and if you think you heard a difference then it should be validated...if you choose not to go through some extra work that is your decisions but again all I ask is that people TRY to control all the external variables involved.

You can talk around the simple idea of CONTROLLING the listening tests with all comments but its still the crux of the issue.

Do you control your listening tests properly?

OK Doug I should not have called you out for the name calling. I am just a little tired of the constant innuendo that the moderators allow in this forum. My apology to you for that. I am not here to create issues, but it is obvious that somewhere we have a disconnect between what people hear and how it is proven. That is all that I am saying.

I have already outlined how I conduct my personal listening tests. They work for me and others.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

OK Doug I should not have called you out for the name calling. I am just a little tired of the constant innuendo that the moderators allow in this forum. My apology to you for that. I am not here to create issues, but it is obvious that somewhere we have a disconnect between what people hear and how it is proven. That is all that I am saying.

I have already outlined how I conduct my personal listening tests. They work for me and others.

Again, I have no emotion over this or anything in audio. Im purely a student of audio science (Im in my 40s but I love learning) so I have no care really about systems. I own 10 AVRs, 6 pre/pros, I build speakers, I have purchased lots of EQs, amps, etc JUST to tinker (I have over 20K in electronics sitting in my Garage). I have no critical listening needs but I do test and I do believe I control my tests properly and with that I can put money behind my opinion that you would not hear the difference you think you hear in a properly controlled test.

You keep saying we are the ones that are closeminded but its the reverse. We will change our minds when the proof exists but that means we have to be shown accurate data. Zero controlled listening tests have never produced differences. Measurement differences have never been shown to be actually audiable at all, this includes what Passion posted.

I did miss how you do your listening tests but if you still know the brand, still know the price tag, still see the cable. It IS NOT a valid test.

For those who are stubborn and post 100 times "I hear a difference" thinking at some point others will just give up why not just do the properly controlled tests?

Is it that hard? Is there a fear in doing one?

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

I am just a little tired of the constant innuendo that the moderators allow in this forum..

You do realize that if I was a moderator reading all this I would have sent you a PM to keep it on topic. You have posted the most insults in the last 10 pages. If anything you are the only one to show anger.

If you want to talk about cables making a difference you do have to get into the science behind it, there is no way around that. If you do not want to get into the science then maybe it isnt a topic you can debate.

[Passion]

Originally Posted by doug20

Your point is an exaggeration and you might not be reading your own attachment properly because there is no truth in saying one cable can be 20dBs lower then another cable...none at all!!

Sorry, you still don't understand my measurements...

20dB (about 10 times) is the difference in the magnitude of losses between cable A and cable B. In cable A looses are 93dB below the input signal, while in cable B losses are 112 db below the same input signal. That 19dB difference is the actual difference, not using any scaling or tricks to show it in a misleading way. You just have to understand what these measurements mean (and then they'll be easy to accept.)

Best,

R

[doug20]

Anyways, its been fun....back to the family and football.

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by doug20

You do realize that if I was a moderator reading all this I would have sent you a PM to keep it on topic. You have posted the most insults in the last 10 pages. If anything you are the only one to show anger.

If you want to talk about cables making a difference you do have to get into the science behind it, there is no way around that. If you do not want to get into the science then maybe it isnt a topic you can debate.

I am trying to find out why these differences exist. I have nothing to prove here Doug. I simply am trying to find out the reason why they exist is all. My tirades were over the treatment that I and others have had to deal with because we believe other than you and others here. The innuendo's that are expressed are not helping this issue and I am sorry if you think otherwise. I am tired of hearing them. Yes I got angry, any one would if they were continually called out as not being able to prove something. What do I have to prove? I know what I hear as do others. We are seeking answers. Plain and simple. Please lets keep this civil.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Passion

Sorry, you still don't understand my measurements...

20dB (about 10 times) is the difference in the magnitude of losses between cable A and cable B. In cable A looses are 93dB below the input signal, while in cable B losses are 112 db below the same input signal. That 19dB difference is the actual difference, not using any scaling or tricks to show it in a misleading way. You just have to understand what these measurements mean (and then they'll be easy to accept.)

Best,

R

I understand the chart, you were not wording it right. Besides, those levels are not audible as I posted already.