I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[SY]

So 0.001dB isn't "low loss?" How low is low to you?

[Passion]

Originally Posted by SY

What Passion has presented is data relating to level and frequency response. If there's data regarding "detail" and "soundstage," it hasn't yet been presented, so it's premature to discuss that.

Of course we can't measure "detail" or "soundstage". Those attributes may or may not appear to be affected during the subjective part of the evaluation.

R

[jon_010101]

Consistent impedance across the audio band should be important, but I doubt the issue is merely "losses". Otherwise we wouldn't use volume controls

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by Passion

SY,

Please accept the fact that, not knowing it, many people on Earth prefer interconnects with very low losses when they listen to their favorite music. We don't know for sure whether the low losses make cables sound better to their ears, or there are other unknown factors that affect their perceived quality, but I know quite a few smart, open-minded, honest, sane people who can hear an obvious difference. My measurements are showing a common characteristic of "preferred" interconnects: low losses (again, maybe there is more).

I'm perfectly fine if you don't agree, but as I said, life is short, so I'm not interest in a futile argument about your "astonishing" statements.

R

Thank you for your input Passion.

[Passion]

Originally Posted by Key

I'm sorry Passion but I don't believe your tests stand up to rigorous retesting. It seems like the impedance isn't being bridged properly in your test or something is exaggerating it that really shouldn't in the real world.

Key,

All measurements are accurate, and the results make electrical sense. Please make sure that you understand what they mean, and how they were performed.

Best,

R

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Passion

SY,

Please accept the fact that, not knowing it, many people on Earth prefer interconnects with very low losses when they listen to their favorite music. We don't know for sure whether the low losses make cables sound better to their ears, or there are other unknown factors that affect their perceived quality, but I know quite a few smart, open-minded, honest, sane people who can hear an obvious difference. My measurements are showing a common characteristic of "preferred" interconnects: low losses (again, maybe there is more).

I'm perfectly fine if you don't agree, but as I said, life is short, so I'm not interest in a futile argument about your "astonishing" statements.

R

The biggest question that is always on my mind is when someone can hear a difference what controls are in place to remove the BIAS?

I can hear differences all the time when I put product A up against product B. Its obvious my brain has already made some conclusions on which product SHOULD be better.

Now do the same test in a controlled experiment and WOW!! I couldnt hear those differences.

Conclusion....our ears are just tools and our brains make 100% of the conclusions!!! Eliminate the extra variable tainting the results and THEN AND ONLY THEN will you have an honest answer to what you heard.

Just do the proper tests, that is all I ever ask!!

heck I have 10 $100 bills that sit ready on my end table for anyone to take it from me in any of these cable tests....Im not alone in offering money but suprisingly you guys can not win it ......you hate to realize the truth but its out there.

btw, You or anyone else can not hear the difference in .001dB either! Nice measurements though!

[doug20]

Originally Posted by Panicos K

So,you can't hear differences because you are aware that you are not immune to suggestion and psychoacoustic effects?
Please tell me what you think of the example of someone with a weak sight.Is it because he is aware that he is not immune to....visual illusions or anything?
I'm selling my cables.....any one interrested?

I would put the litmus test on any subjective opinion. I do not care if you can't hear or can hear something different. All that ever matters is the fact that the listening test has to have valid controls involved.

Do you not agree with this?

as a side note...surprisingly people that subjectively can not hear a difference are not online posting stubborn POVs with zero science behind them over and over

I will side with science myself but that is just me....others have belief systems to work it all out

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by doug20

I would put the litmus test on any subjective opinion. I do not care if you can't hear or can hear something different. All that ever matters is the fact that the listening test has to have valid controls involved.

Do you not agree with this?

Doug, why is that people when put into situations where they must make decisions, fail? There must ne some psychological reason for this phenomena? Has that ever crossed your mind, rather than calling people names or calling them out because you can not prove what they hear? I simply find it odd that many of you get so ballistic over something that you do not believe, and lose your minds with rage when it is suggested as possible. I think Passion, myself and others are as interested as anyone to find out the basis for the differences that we hear. There is simply far too many people that hear differences for it to be a mass brainwashing of music lovers.

[Passion]

Originally Posted by jlsem

R,

You don't have to apologize to anyone. One poster here (from the "pure engineering" camp) stated once that the receiver he used was superior to others due to slight differences he measured in the the noise floor at -130dB or thereabouts. Nary a har-har from anyone. These debates are nearly 100% political in nature. There is a great deal of data presented on this forum (from both sides) that falls squarely in the category of thesis-driven research.

John

Thanks for your words, John. I'm sure a few open-minded people will be interested in the test method and the results of the experiment.

Learning a lot of new and interesting things has been the most rewarding consequence of designing and building this instrument. That's more than enough for me.

Cheers,

Ricardo

[SY]

Originally Posted by Passion

Of course we can't measure "detail" or "soundstage". Those attributes may or may not appear to be affected during the subjective part of the evaluation.

R

I would agree with that. I was just responding to the apparent attempt to tie supposed sonic differences to your most-likely-accurate frequency response and level measurements.