I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by Key

Allow me to cast some doubt on your experience. Being accustomed Hi-Fi for the most part makes you a tainted subject in regards to judging realism from my perspective - you are acclimated to human abstractions. I feel I might be a better judge because of my near 20 years playing acoustic instruments. Who is right?

No one. That is simply your opinion. I listen to unamplified acoustic instruments, but that does not make me an expert. Why does anyone have to be right or wrong? I simply believe what I found to be true in my life, nothing more nothing less.

[Key]

Well that's fine and good in the privacy of your home but to come on a forum and claim that some quantum tunnelling cables work without any rigorous testing or any attempt to understand what might be happening through modern measurements just seems a little like a religion to me or a placebo.

[planet10]

Originally Posted by SY

Even if ears respond identically to the impressed waves, people's brains process that data in a different way.

Toole's work shows that despite this, there is a VERY high level of agreement of what sounds best in trials where all but audible clues were eliminated.

dave

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by Key

Well that's fine and good in the privacy of your home but to come on a forum and claim that some quantum tunnelling cables work without any rigorous testing or any attempt to understand what might be happening through modern measurements just seems a little like a religion to me or a placebo.

Again your standards are not mine. I have nothing to prove to or the other scientist here. You can ignore what I hear just I can ignore your thoughts. I use my experiences outside of my home to help others make their systems sound as good as they possibly can, if asked to do so. They would not agree that my experiences have no bearing on what they now enjoy.

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by Key

Allow me to cast some doubt on your experience. Being accustomed Hi-Fi for the most part makes you a tainted subject in regards to judging realism from my perspective - you are acclimated to human abstractions. I feel I might be a better judge because of my near 20 years playing acoustic instruments. Who is right?

If you are judging what you hear from your hi-fi comparing to what you hear as a player when playing an instrument,your findings will be different than someone's findings who is judging as a simple listener.No one is wrong.

[Key]

Originally Posted by planet10

Toole's work shows that despite this, there is a VERY high level of agreement of what sounds best in trials where all but audible clues were eliminated.

dave

I would agree with this. There are some objective truths to be targeted with reproduction.

I think it's when we try to notice things without controls and use visual cues - which can completely change the interpretation of the sound - where we get in trouble with our perception. If you want to notice a difference your brain can easily make you actually hear something which isn't present.

[auplater]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

Your opinions and you are entitled to them. They do not change what I hear or others. I have learned to listen by being exposed to many, many different high end audio products over the years. I have learned what makes music enjoyable to me and great many customers. I have never strong armed a customer with sales pitches. We simply set up the system, allow them to listen to their own music, and they do the rest. If they liked what they hear, they purchased. If not they go elsewhere. I do not know how any intelligent person can "brainwash" another human, without being held captive and forcing them to be indoctrinated against their will. Are you easily brainwashed?

you just don't get it. No one has questioned what you hear. Why do you (and others) keep putting words in others mouths that they don't say?? Does it make you feel superior?

It's what causes what you hear that is being discussed. You think it's cables, others believe you haven't diligently pursued other reasons for what you hear, and the possibility that expectation bias, among other things, may be at play. This is well known to be a major confounding issue in most any test and is difficult to eliminate without alot of work. You refuse to do this work, or even acknowledge that this may be a problem and accept that your interpretation may be flawed.

So all your blather about 'knowing what you hear is factual' is specious, irrelevant and, quite frankly, beyond the need for discussion, since no one is questioning it in the first place...

[Key]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

Again your standards are not mine. I have nothing to prove to or the other scientist here. You can ignore what I hear just I can ignore your thoughts. I use my experiences outside of my home to help others make their systems sound as good as they possibly can, if asked to do so. They would not agree that my experiences have no bearing on what they now enjoy.

But without testing to confirm what you think is right you could potentially - in my opinion definitely - be leading people down the wrong path with your experience. I see it everyday on various forums - people claiming to be experts on a subject which is so new that really there are no experts. People want to just take experts words and run with them and wonder why at the end of the day there system has no "synergy". Well maybe it was because the supposed expert's methods are very crude - trial and error with an unlimited amount of resources.

Guys I never said I was a better judge in an absolute sense I was just saying it for the sake of the argument. I don't think anything is ever like this even though humans constantly are looking for an easy quantifiable answer like "Coke is better than Pepsi". With people and technology there are always strengths and weaknesses.

[Curly Woods]

Originally Posted by auplater

you just don't get it. No one has questioned what you hear. Why do you (and others) keep putting words in others mouths that they don't say?? Does it make you feel superior?

It's what causes of what you hear that is being discussed. You think it's cables, others believe you haven't diligently pursued other reasons for what you hear, and the possibility that expectation bias, among other things, may be at play. This is well known to be a major confounding issue in most any test and is difficult to eliminate without alot of work. You refuse to do this work, or even acknowledge that this may be a problem and accept that your interpretation may be flawed.

So all your blather about 'knowing what you hear is factual' is specious, irrelevant and, quite frankly, beyond the need for discussion, since no one is questioning it in the first place...

I am waiting for someone to tell me why I hear what I hear, rather than telling me that the differences do not exist. If I blather, it is to offset the innuendos from those that feel that are correct just because their understanding of the whole works, is not what I hear. Again I never asked anyone to agree with any of my views. They are mine and I enjoy them. If this upsets you, how is this my fault?

[Key]

Originally Posted by Curly Woods

I am waiting for someone to tell me why I hear what I hear, rather than telling me that the differences do not exist. If I blather, it is to offset the innuendos from those that feel that are correct just because their understanding of the whole works, is not what I hear. Again I never asked anyone to agree with any of my views. They are mine and I enjoy them. If this upsets you, how is this my fault?

You hear what you hear because that is what your brain tells you to hear. Do I win a prize or something?