I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[rdf]

Originally posted by janneman
This is also who I don't believe that DBT's cause so much stress that suble differences cannot be heard. Contrarywise, it is a typical human trait to perform BETTER under stress.

jd

Originally posted by janneman



Why? Do you have some argument to support such a sweeping statement?

jd

Irony day?

[janneman]

Originally posted by rdf


Irony day?

No, why? Is it irony to ask why if some gives a sweeping statement: "If you can't hear the difference between A and B something is seriously wrong"?
The arrogance, combined with ignorance, could certainly be reason for real irony. But then again, the poster probably didn't realize the extend of his post.

Or do you have an issue with my statement that humans generally perform better under stress than the opposite? That can be easily looked up of course. Should I have given references? I thought this type of stuff is common knowledge, no? That people perform not very well wrt their capabilities if not challenged?



jd

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by janneman
Why? Do you have some argument to support such a sweeping statement?
jd

I still have an old Sony DVD player, I believe a better model than the one used. If that thing were the only way to play CD's, I would never listen to CD's in my live. Perhaps that's the reason some people still listen to vinyl.

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by janneman
No, why? Is it irony to ask why if some gives a sweeping statement: "If you can't hear the difference between A and B something is seriously wrong"?
The arrogance, combined with ignorance, could certainly be reason for real irony. But then again, the poster probably didn't realize the extend of his post.

No arrogance but a listener or his system must be seriously ignorant not to hear a difference between that DVD player and CD player.

Originally posted by janneman
Or do you have an issue with my statement that humans generally perform better under stress than the opposite? That can be easily looked up of course. Should I have given references? I thought this type of stuff is common knowledge, no? That people perform not very well wrt their capabilities if not challenged?
jd

Jan if you can enjoy music while stressed, there are something wrong with you.

We are not talking about jumping over a 12ft fence with a lion hanging on your behind.

[janneman]

Originally posted by Andre Visser

No arrogance but a listener or his system must be seriously ignorant not to hear a difference between that DVD player and CD player.[snip]

This is arrogance in my book. YMMV.

Originally posted by Andre Visser
[snip]Jan if you can enjoy music while stressed, there are something wrong with you. [snip]

Arrogance again. But that wasn't the issue Andre.
Please read what the issue was. I was talking about DBT's, and the often heard - off hand, of course, don't ask for any background - statement that DBT's cause stress so that participants cannot hear subtle differences.
That is in full contradiction to the well know phenomena that people generally perform better when under stress, not worse. And that is overwhelmingly documented. There's lots of people making a living from that phenomenon.

Peace,

jd

[audio-kraut]

I would not go so far to state that stress always can lead to better performance - when it come to physical fight or flight reactions, that might be mostly true.
In the case of intellectual tasks however, folks have been know to "freeze" up during exams.

Not that this is an argument against dbt, because reading the statements of participants - especially of some tests in germany that jacob usually considers not rigorous enough to withstand closer scrutiny - the "believers" proclaim that the test was "easy" and were quite confident of their abilities to differentiate up and until the results were made public, and the back paddling started in full force.
Suddenly "stress test" was the rage, "unfamiliarity, though not of concern before the test was cited as an excuse, etc. etc. pp.pp.

In short, everything was done to discredit a test to which everybody had signed on as to the methodology and evaluation, no ifs whens or buts. Why? because every single one of the mostly "believers" participating was so sure of himself to have the almost magical capacity. Only when shown that the magic was missing - then the whining and gnashing of teeth started.
And that is why I do not take any of the cable mystics serious any more, and relegate them to the realm of the quasi religious.

[janneman]

Originally posted by audio-kraut
[snip]
In the case of intellectual tasks however, folks have been know to "freeze" up during exams.
[snip]

Yes, that is why I used the therm 'generally people perform better etc'. You can overdo stress. But I agree with you that the automatic reaction 'ohh, DBT, the stress, I can't hear the subtle differences!' is nonsensical. In general

jd

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by janneman
This is arrogance in my book. YMMV.

Oh but it is not arrogance to compare an old common DVD player with a dedicated good CD player, or a SOTA Ayre amplifier with a Pioneer receiver and make the claim that it sound the same, some need to wake up sometime and listen for themselves.

Originally posted by janneman
Arrogance again. But that wasn't the issue Andre.
Please read what the issue was. I was talking about DBT's, and the often heard - off hand, of course, don't ask for any background - statement that DBT's cause stress so that participants cannot hear subtle differences.
That is in full contradiction to the well know phenomena that people generally perform better when under stress, not worse. And that is overwhelmingly documented. There's lots of people making a living from that phenomenon.
Peace,
jd

Jan if you can't or don't want to see that I've said that trying to add a bit of humour, then I will remember not to make a joke with you again.

Yes, I am one of those that will openly say DBT's causes stress, especially if you are not used to it. That was (and sometimes still is) my experience, not something that I've read somewhere. Doing a test (not even talking about DBT) can easilly cause you to concentrate on the test and on 'finding differences' rather than relax and listen to the music.

If you try to compare listening to music (allowing yourself to experience every detail) to sport, may explain our totally different perception of sound.

[janneman]

Originally posted by Andre Visser
Oh but it is not arrogance to compare an old common DVD player with a dedicated good CD player, or a SOTA Ayre amplifier with a Pioneer receiver and make the claim that it sound the same, [snip]

Ahhh but that's the point. NOBODY says that they sound the same. What is said is: "show me". Show me a repeatable, controlled test that shows they sound different and that's it.
I know amps can sound different, I've heard it often myself. Was it repeatable and controlled? No. So I shut up.

Andre, I make come across as angry but I am not. Only excited

jd

[janneman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Andre Visser
[B][snip]Jan if you can't or don't want to see that I've said that trying to add a bit of humour, then I will remember not to make a joke with you again.[snip]


Sorry, you're right. I'll lighten up ...

jd