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Old 10th August 2009, 06:35 PM   #5311
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve Dunlap
So, if you could not measure ANY difference, they will sound exactly the same, weather tube or solid state. Right?

If you measured enough parameters, in the final analysis, yes. Indeed, audible differences can ONLY come from electrical signal differences at the amp output. And those can be measured, in principle.

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Old 10th August 2009, 06:35 PM   #5312
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I still haven't ever measured a tube unit (including mine, alas) as quiet and free of microphonics as the best solid state. And I still haven't measured a solid state unit with the headroom and recovery of the best tube units. So the question is really pretty academic.
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Old 10th August 2009, 07:16 PM   #5313
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Originally posted by analog_sa
The speakers are very inefficient and difficult to drive but apart from that, quite revealing. It is interesting to know something about the panel and whether they were happy with the sound (looks like a very live room they tried fixing in a hurry).
Analog_sa according to me if one can't hear a large difference between an old Sony DVD player and a Wadia CDP then there is something serious wrong, let alone the difference between a Behringer and a Krell. I only sort of blamed the speakers not to suggest that 2/3 of the listeners had no clue what a hi-fi should sound like.
 
Old 10th August 2009, 07:23 PM   #5314
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Originally posted by SY
That said, I seriously doubt that anyone could tell the difference between an old Marantz 510 and the latest whiz-bang Parasound/Krell/Ayre if the amps were not clipping and no peeking was allowed. Or, for that matter, any of those amps and the canonical Pioneer receiver, with the same non-clipping proviso.
It is 2009 and you still believe that BS, or are you selling Pioneer receivers?
 
Old 10th August 2009, 07:26 PM   #5315
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Or maybe things are different when one gets past the gas bag stage and actually DOES a blind, level matched comparison.
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Old 10th August 2009, 07:49 PM   #5316
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
Or maybe things are different when one gets past the gas bag stage and actually DOES a blind, level matched comparison.
Did the gas move up or out afterwards?

I haven't done level matched comparisons but started volume from zero and set it to my comfortable listening level. Again, a good amp sound good at almost any level, a bad amp only at one level.
 
Old 10th August 2009, 07:54 PM   #5317
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So, IOW, you haven't done the experiment.

Hot gas rises.
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:00 PM   #5318
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Quote:
Originally posted by SY
Not that it hasn't been said a few hundred times....
'Fast' was in contrast to long term listening and familiarization before a change. At the risk of further belabouring the obvious, I know a blind test can be structured in such a manner. The point was I haven't seen it done. If that's incorrect feel free to post the switching times used in your favourite cable tests. Group events in which a tester with a proclaimed position there are no differences group tests individuals who, after a discussion on the matter, agree with him can be ignored.
And are you really equating the certainty of statistical perceptual tests with those of thermodynamics? I'm not so brave.

Jakob2, interesting guy. Which paper did you have in mind? What little I've quickly read of his notions on the importance of jitter and interfaces makes me wonder about the reception he'ld get here.
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Old 10th August 2009, 08:04 PM   #5319
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Originally posted by SY
So, IOW, you haven't done the experiment.

Hot gas rises.
That explain a lot.

Amplifiers sound different even over a wide volume range, I can't see that level matching is suddenly that important since I adjust it to my preferred listening level anyway.
 
Old 10th August 2009, 08:06 PM   #5320
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Quote:
since I adjust it to my preferred listening level anyway.
That's when you peek?
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