I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[fdegrove]

Hi,

I know that different cables change the sound of a system. I have heard them in my own system plenty of times along with other systems. However, I do not think that it is the cables that are adding or taking away from the sound.

Some interestings points are made in that post although non-technical, the sonic experience can be explained technically.

First of all, cables won't add anything. At worst they'd detract from the signal.

What I think it is, is that when you introduce a cheap, poorly constructed cable between your amp and speakers, your amp is having to work harder because it has to push the signal through an inferior conductor with a higher capacitance.

Yes and no. Badly constructed, yes. No on the series resistance part... I know of more than one cable that expressly uses inferior conductors and still sounds very good.

If the amp is working harder, it is also running hotter which induces more distortion, clipping, worse frequency response, etc.. making it sound strained and grainy with less power reserve.

That's very system dependent, but I understand the point you're trying to make...it isn't universally applicable though.

If the amp can stay in this part of the output range, sending the signal through a more effiecent, conductive, less resistive cable, then that alone is going to improve the sound of the system quite a bit.

In my system at least using silver cable throughout allows me to see/hear closer into the hall/studio.

It's kind of like an engine. If you replace the stock, restrictive airfilter and exhaust system with a high performance, free flowing set-up, the engine is going to perform better because it can "breathe" easier.

An unfortunate metaphor, combustion engines are a little different in that they usually do not benefit from free airflow at the exhaust...quite to the contrary...

Chops, excuse me for taking so may snippets from your post...

It was just that you probably heard the right things for the wrong reason...

Forgive me Lord for I've sinned,

[Brett]

Originally posted by fdegrove
An unfortunate metaphor, combustion engines are a little different in that they usually do not benefit from free airflow at the exhaust...quite to the contrary...

Um, no, you can't make that generalisation. I've built a number of both normally aspirated and forced induction motors, and almost without exception they've benefitted from better flow in the exhaust system, usually by quite a lot. All of these were hi-perf motors, and not generalised engines like a Toyota Corolla would be setup ex factory (the 4AG series are sweet motors). The biggest beneficiaries were the PP and turbo rotaries.
I designed and built the EMU's and the flowbench.

That said, my road bike, and FZR1000 has an exup valve (rpm/load dependent variable restrictor) in the exhaust, and every version of this motor I've tried with an aftermarket can, and a removed exup, has had poorer low and mid (<6000rpm) performance even when rejetted, and only a bit more at the top end. Mine pulls like a train from 2500.

[audiofan]

there are several quality of cables and interconnect and the diference can be evaluated but you must be very carefull in that kind of test:
first test must be done on a fairly optimised system otherwise the system wont show the difference.
second the quality of the assembly between the cable lug and the binding post of the amp or speaker may change, so the result change
on interconnect there is also another problem it is the capacitance of the interconnect VS the output impedance of the source some equipement will soud better if the capacitance of the cable is higher for some other it is the opposite, so from that point it is the match that is the more important and result will change from one set up to another

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Brett, you're killing me....

ROTFLMAO...

A Porsche Targa Carrera 310PK anyone?

Or perhaps my fav toy...the 916...good for 280 MPH....should have kept that one, amazing car.

Cheers everyone,

[Brett]

Originally posted by fdegrove
Hi,

Brett, you're killing me....

ROTFLMAO...

Huh? I don't get what was so funny.

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Brett,

It may all be a matter of semantics but here goes:

For me freeflow at the exhaust means unimpeded airflow = same as no exhaust pipe at all.

Surely, not to be be recommended...??

What did I miss?

P.S. Apologies for taking this thread off topic to all concerned.

[Cobra2]

What did I miss?

A pipe can flow better than no pipe at all!

Is this not off topic???

Arne K

[cocolino]

originally posted by KevinLee
I truly believe that everything influences sound in your system right from the CD player all the way to the speaker. I also believe that things like ridgity of stands, damping of equipment & room acoustics affect the sound.

That`s right but the question is how much what makes which difference.
IMO for example in regard to room acoustis cables have negligible influence. Move Your speakers only 5 inches and You`ll find it makes more influence than any cable ever does.
Same goes when You change an attenuator in Your speaker XOver to vary driver output by only +-/0,5dB (I can hear this clearly but I fail to hear cables in most cases).

However, I agree that certain unfortunate amp->cable->speaker combinations can make an audible difference. It seems that`s particular true for very low or otherwise unusual impedance speakers as ELS`s or for very long cables.
But then this is due to the speakers property and not so much a sign for the "quality" of the cable itself.

originally posted by Circlotron
The things the sales blurb talk about like characteristic impedance of the cable etc are real but at audio frequencies need cables many kilometres long to have any effect.

That`s not always true and the "90 square mil cable" for instance I`d consider as one of those "unfortunate" arrangements when combined with ESL-speakers which can have(and mostly have) incredible low impedance levels at high frequencies. The skin-effect of those kind of ultrathick cables lead to increase (BTW: measurable even at audio frequencies) of impedance at high audio frequencies and together with the falling impedance of the ESL in the same frequency range can result in a "well" audible drop of "highs".
That`s only an extreme example, I know.


In most other cases IMO cables make so small difference that I do not break my head about .
That`s no vote for not paying attention to "good" quality cable or interconnects (which can make more difference than the cable IMO) but it`s clearly a vote against $100/m cables or more (I have seen cables advertised for $15k - that`s only mad).
IMO a really decent speaker cable need not cost more than ~$10/m (less for DIY).

What I find especially ridiculous are those speaker cable tests in the magazines where they test cables all on the same amp./speaker combination and then give recommendations what is good and what not - what a bu....it!

[Fusor]

Well I'm almost convinced.
I'm going to try taking the back off of my ported speakers.
Surely they will benefit from increased flow.
If that works I'm going to replace all my resistors with wire,
audiophile quality of course!

But now that I think about it,
I replaced the exhaust on my hotrod with a straight pipe once.
Ran like gangbusters at 6000 RPM!
However it had no low end torque, and wasn't very drivable.

Maybe there is something to having a 'tuned exhaust'.
Maybe there are instances where something less than welding cable makes better sound.

[Brett]

Originally posted by cocolino

That`s right but the question is how much what makes which difference.
IMO for example in regard to room acoustis cables have negligible influence. Move Your speakers only 5 inches and You`ll find it makes more influence than any cable ever does.
Same goes when You change an attenuator in Your speaker XOver to vary driver output by only +-/0,5dB (I can hear this clearly but I fail to hear cables in most cases).

Agreed. If a speaker change, whether position, model/brand, driver config etc or room acoustics is a 1st order difference sonically, then cables are about 4th or 5th order changes. And if as has been suggested, the bulk reactance of a cable change in a speaker cable or interconnect causes something to go out of whack ie an amp oscillating, then I think that falls into the poor design category.