I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[fdegrove]

Originally posted by fredex
SY, soongsc, in UK people made their own ICs with solder. Two runs stuck between sticky tape. Everything has been tried.

Hi,

Yes, this may well have to do with continuity of materials used.
Let me explain: imagine a designer having optimised a circuit by "listening" to a similar sonic fingerprint as found by combining materials found in solder. I.e. lead, tin, silver perhaps and god only knows what.
As a cable designer (among other occupations) I can tell from experience that this kind of continuity is not only important, it's also audible. One often hears that if one uses sivler ICs then one should also use silver LS cables and so on.
Solid strand cables whether copper or silver also tend to yield a more coherent sound than multi-strand and so on. I feel it's true even down to powercord wiring (asuming your household wiring is in fact solid corre as it often is in Europe and the UK).
Dielectric materials aso leave their sonic fingerprints, I dont know which is more true to the original, but at least dielectric absorbtion is easlily measurable. Not that the lowest figures are necessarily given the beter sound for everyone....

Musical reproduction is after all a subjective experience and we should accept it as such.
If we'd all be the same we'd not be arguing and had accepted the pale truth of stone cold measurements a long time ago....

That being said it's not that hard to assess and categorise a material's sound. (Various metals in casu) The Japanese did so almost thirty years ago already and did a fine job too.

Over the past fourty years I hardly heard a system that measured well and sounded good too. OTOH I heard plenty of great sounding systems that didn't measure too well.
I never heard a system that measured flawlessly and sounded like it. Why?

Cheers,

[DaveCan]

I don't believe cables make a difference,any input?


Well, if you don't use them, you won't hear anything!
Dave

[SY]

Originally posted by fdegrove


Hi,

Which proves the point.

Cheers,

Doesn't prove it, but it strongly suggests it.

However, we probably have two different ideas of what the "point" is.

[fredex]

Originally posted by fdegrove

.....I never heard a system that measured flawlessly and sounded like it. Why?

To nitpick I don't think there exists a system that has measured flawlessly. But in answer to your question why didn't the flawless system sound flawless, maybe it did, but you just didn't like the sound. As you said earlier in your post "... Musical reproduction is after all a subjective experience..."

[fredex]

Hi fdegrove my post 1992 asks a question any DIY person would want to know, that is 'what materials should I use in my projects. for best sound?' These effects could be cumlative so even though my poor ears may not pick up one instance of material use I should be able to hear the difference in the whole system with correct materials. If I can't turn to science for the answers (it can't be measured) then I must turn to those who can actually hear these effects. I thought you would be an ideal person to ask. Thanks.

[analog_sa]

Originally posted by fredex
These effects could be cumlative so even though my poor ears may not pick up one instance of material use I should be able to hear the difference in the whole system with correct materials.

They may be synergistic but definitely not cumulative. At least not IME. In fact i find it easier to pick the sonic effect of a discontinuity in a system, per example a single piece of silver wire, a single tantalum resistor, a single PIO cap or a single length of multistrand in a solid core system.

The most striking example i've ever had was the clear audibility of a set of new headshell wires (2-3cm) i brought into my system a few years ago. Would you try explaining this with RFI, or RLC effects

[fredex]

Originally posted by analog_sa
....The most striking example i've ever had was the clear audibility of a set of new headshell wires (2-3cm) i brought into my system a few years ago. Would you try explaining this with RFI, or RLC effects

I might if I thought there was real effect eg dirty contacts on headshell can cause rectification of rf signals, changing leads could clean contacts, or your preamp could be unstable and the slightest change in capacitance caused by lead dressing could start or stop oscillation. If the effect was not just in your imagination what do you think was the cause?

[analog_sa]

Originally posted by fredex
If the effect was not just in your imagination what do you think was the cause?

My expectations were biased towards mild to zero improvement, not the opposite. The headshell wires came with a new Ortofon cartridge and replaced the old ones in my Ittok. The original Ittok wire is not known for any audiophile magic and is probably the cheapest Linn had at hand. The sound with the new wire/clips became extremely unpleasant, against expectations and against any possible "dirty contacts" theory. I was so shocked i switched over several times.

The result of this experience was to order some proper Cardas clips and wire. This led to some mild improvement over the original Ittok wire, but nothing as shocking as the Ortofon.

Conclusion: pay attention to conductors; don't use any wire, even from reputable sources without testing it; short lengths and also poor quality jacks/sockets are enough to damage the signal.

It's also quite ironic that a manufacturer who should know better can pack such a freebie with a very decent cart.

[tnargs]

Originally posted by analog_sa
...The most striking example i've ever had was the clear audibility of a set of new headshell wires (2-3cm) i brought into my system a few years ago. Would you try explaining this with RFI, or RLC effects

Read the thread! It has all been explained over, and over, and over...... and it has nothing to do with sound waves.

[guoming]

expensive cable make good sound. DIY cable good idea.