I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Originally Posted by olblueyez

Does it really matter how the test is performed? If it indicates an audible difference then it must be flawed yes?

Not really but the use of Naim amps can fall into the category of amps that aren't stable under all conditions.
Playing the devil's advocate that would translate into cable upsets amp...Hence, cable test invalid and I tend to agree.

OTOH I submitted myself to hundreds if not thousands of all kinds of tests over a period of 25 years or more.
I can confidently state "I perceive" differences.

Cheers,

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by SY

Actually, a Firewire external soundcard I've been borrowing has clip on ferrites for the Firewire cable and the wire from the wallwart. I couldn't measure or hear any difference with the ferrites there, but I'll bet they're helpful in some situations.

What did you measure? In the work I'm currently doing developing active speakers, a simple THD test does not show anything particularly untoward yet I'm definitely hearing something way above hearing thresholds. So I'm forced to conclude that THD tests aren't sensitive enough. Not yet sure what will find it, but I know its there because I hear it. And no, I haven't ABX'd myself yet

Speaker cables? Maybe, if you're living right in the main lobe of a 50kW transmitter. I wouldn't be surprised if some amps that are designed to have ridiculous bandwidths could also benefit.

Yep, it will be a trade-off. I think Martin Colloms has noted in the past that amps can be sensitive to RF ingression into the ground terminals of their speaker outlets.

[SY]

So I'm forced to conclude that THD tests aren't sensitive enough.

or they are... for THD. Or there's some severe limitation built into the word "simple." But maybe what you're hearing isn't THD. Possible the issue is something else, no?

[abraxalito]

Originally Posted by SY

or they are... for THD.

Right, I wasn't quite explicit. They're not sensitive enough to pick up some audible differences, but they work just fine to pick up non-linearities in the audio band transfer function.

Or there's some severe limitation built into the word "simple."

No, that can't be it. Argument still stands if I drop the word 'simple'

But maybe what you're hearing isn't THD.

Right, because the THD measures around -80dB 2nd harmonic and I'm sure that would be a very quiet thing, if audible at all above masking.

Possible the issue is something else, no?

More than possible, I'd say strongly probable. Working hypothesis is my most recent hobby horse - noise modulation from RF (or alternatively RF-based intermodulation, take your pick). Which is why I think ferrites might well make an audible difference.

[SY]

OT advice: the first thing I'd do is a high resolution complex impedance measurement. Plotted on the R, iX plane, that will show up a LOT of unexpected phenomena that don't manifest as THD.

[fdegrove]

Hi,

In general I think audiophiles don't like ferrites. Some say they make a harsh sound, not listened to any differences myself. I wouldn't use them on speaker cables because at the currents involved there, there might be non-linearities down into the audio band, but they might have applications for interconnects, especially digital ones.

Audiophiles, people that actually listen to music, not measurements, have all kinds or preferences related to what they feel is musically correct.
The use of ferrite coils on interconnects or speaker cable, while measurably benificial outside the accepted audio bandwidth seem to have a negative impact way down to what's assumed as audible.

The list of what's assumed audible or not is endless, power cords are just one of them....

Cheers,

[Salas]

Thanking members for the participation and ideas in this thread. Almost 15000 posts certainly covered the topic enough. Unfortunately too much of a baggage thread also, steadily creating animosity, high maintenance, and penalties for years now. This is the end of this thread, by DIYA's official will. No offspring threads please. Take care, and thanks again.