I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[gedlee]

Kareface - I like your approach "Then you wouldn't care if it's called magic then?", excellent point. You have an above average knowledge of acoustics and physics - not very common arround here. We tend to get a lot of "magicians" and "psychics" who can hear things that defy explaination ... and thats how they explain it.

Decent HT too, but I would NIX the glass top coffee table. I've had a lot of trouble with those. Coffee table in general are a problem, but glass tops just acentuate the issues.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by kareface

I can see when someone is clearly relying on faith to support a premise. Trust me I have no illusions about changing his mind. Consider me warned, don't worry about my time or energy being wasted. I wouldn't reply if I wasn't enjoying the discourse.

lmao, you and me both on the enjoyment

[tinitus]

I dont think I have ever heard anyone object against doing measurements

[gedlee]

But isn't the problem that when the measurements say that there is nothing to hear, you still hear something? There is no point in doing measurements if you are not going to accept the results.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by tinitus

I dont think I have ever heard anyone object against doing measurements

have valid measurements been posted that prove audibile differences?

[tinitus]

No, no problem
The problem I see is that theres still no standards telling us how multiple measurements correlate to each other
I have heard the strangest things from combinating various materials
And the best is usually still just choosing a compromise, or put differently, choosing the best compromise

But I doubt anyone really likes the perfect
Perfect is boring

[kareface]

Originally Posted by gedlee

Kareface - I like your approach "Then you wouldn't care if it's called magic then?", excellent point. You have an above average knowledge of acoustics and physics - not very common arround here. We tend to get a lot of "magicians" and "psychics" who can hear things that defy explaination ... and thats how they explain it.

Thanks, just to give you guys a little background. I'm actually quite new to DIY speakers, it's becoming a fun hobby with another pair in the works. I've helped designed many large scale and small scale sound rooms and home theaters. I'm HAA certified, I plan to do my masters in acoustical physics or engineering and I'd be willing to bet Ted White would corroborate me when I say I understand soundproofing, not to his degree tho. I'm a strong supporter of the Socratic method and objective verification, I know how frail the human mind is and how easily we tend to latch on to foundation-less arguments. I always try to be critical of my own beliefs.

Originally Posted by gedlee

Decent HT too, but I would NIX the glass top coffee table. I've had a lot of trouble with those. Coffee table in general are a problem, but glass tops just acentuate the issues.

I'm actually really embarrassed about the room right now. I've been planing DIY sympathetic resonators, diffractors and some fiberglass panels. My time and money has been dedicated to my work computers as of late, but once I get my house in order I plan on acoustically treating the room. Right now I'm not sweating over the coffee table when there's so many other things that need to be corrected to get ideal reproduction. With a little luck I'll have the time to finish everything before summers up.

[john curl]

Measurements change with time. There was a time in my professional experience, when time delay was considered completely inaudible, except for echo like aberrations. This was called Ohm's second law (of acoustics) Well, Ohm was off course a little, and now you don't hear about his second law. However, in 1937, it was as important as his law of resistance. Times change, paradigms shift, and measurements move in a different direction.

[jlsem]

Not to mention below 500hz it doesn't even matter if we have 2 ears.

That's one one the silliest quasi-scientific statements I've ever read. Do you mean to say that it's neither possible nor necessary for a person to distinguish the direction or distance of another human voice?

John

[kareface]

Originally Posted by tinitus

No, no problem
The problem I see is that theres still no standards telling us how multiple measurements correlate to each other
I have heard the strangest things from combinating various materials
And the best is usually still just choosing a compromise, or put differently, choosing the best compromise

But I doubt anyone really likes the perfect
Perfect is boring

You have to agree on the definitions of the words before standards can be set. You can measure warmth, it's distortion which tends to accentuate specific frequencies and not others. Live is too high of a decay time. Dead is too little decay time and a muffling of the higher frequencies. Imaging (2 channel) is the delay time between the 2 channels + early or late reflections within the haas window. All the data is there, you just need to know what you're looking at and what you're looking for. The biggest problem is the misuse of words and the subjective elements of sound. It's pretty clear tho, if we run a test on 2 cables (with in reason) and the results are close enough for the recordings to nullify, there isn't much of a question on the matter. Moving your speaker 1" will produce a greater impact on the measurements.