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Old 24th May 2008, 10:34 AM   #1291
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brett
This oft gets stated, but no one steps up with a mechanism for these mystical differences. At least sensible ones.
There is nothing mystical, everything must have an explanation, the problem perhaps is finding it.

I believe the most important aspect in staging and even in reproducing detail is in the timing when the sounds from the two speakers reach the ears. It is well known that the brain is very sensitive to this to localise sounds, even small variations can be detected.
 
Old 24th May 2008, 12:18 PM   #1292
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andre Visser



I believe the most important aspect in staging and even in reproducing detail is in the timing when the sounds from the two speakers reach the ears.

Are you suggesting that cables don't matter with mono?
 
Old 24th May 2008, 01:03 PM   #1293
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andre Visser
If you look at any scene..
You have looked at the scene of your recorded media? You were privy to these events?

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Graddon
One hopes not !!!
but with your ears, could you tell them apart anyway.
G'day AJ
Yes, if you knew the proper physical location of each at the time of recording and they were reversed (flipped) during playback, the ears most certainly could hear this - sighted or blind. So what happens to our caped crusaders during DBTs? Why can't they immediately identify the blatantly-obvious-during-sighted-listening spatial cues? What causes the "Kryptonite Effect" here?

Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Graddon
but they may exist, and as you say, be impossible to measure.
Rubbish. LCR is measurable (as is RF and other "know to science" parameters). But when do we ever see measurements of these and their effect on the "revealing" systems - to accompany the tales of our heroes?

Is it possible for (measured) LCR differences between cables to cause spatial differences below or near DBT thresholds. Certainly. But I've got things bigger than plankton to fry.
Like fish...and loudspeakers in rooms.
A DBT isn't going to mask stage depth difference between a dipole and a monopole. It may be artificial, but it certainly isn't imaginary.

cheers,

AJ
 
Old 24th May 2008, 01:11 PM   #1294
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Quote:
Originally posted by analog_sa

Are you suggesting that cables don't matter with mono?
In that post I was refering to a system's ability to recreate a soundstage. If timing is out, you can lose detail also.

With mono, it is still possible to hear the differences in detail from different cables.
 
Old 24th May 2008, 01:23 PM   #1295
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJinFLA

You have looked at the scene of your recorded media? You were privy to these events?
AJ
AJ, please read the other halve of that sentence also, perhaps you will figure out what I'm trying to tell you.

No, cables will not change the positions of instruments, it is however capable of blurring the whole image.
 
Old 24th May 2008, 01:32 PM   #1296
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Quote:
Originally posted by AJinFLA
But I've got things bigger than plankton to fry.
Like fish...and loudspeakers in rooms.
cheers,
AJ
I agree

And when you are finished, check your cables.
 
Old 24th May 2008, 01:41 PM   #1297
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Howdy again, Get the highest resolution speaker you can get your hands on (Electrostatic?), set up a calibrated mic and measure the acoustic output. Swap cables and measure again. We can't hear electrons! We hear the acoustic output of a transducer which is our ultimate interface with the sound. Someone posted earlier that speakers can't resolve enough detail to make such measurements relevent. If speakers can not resolve enough detail to produce a valid measurment, it's highly unlikely our woefully inadequate ears can!
 
Old 24th May 2008, 02:08 PM   #1298
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Quote:
Originally posted by tc-60guy
Howdy again, Get the highest resolution speaker you can get your hands on (Electrostatic?), set up a calibrated mic and measure the acoustic output. Swap cables and measure again. We can't hear electrons! We hear the acoustic output of a transducer which is our ultimate interface with the sound. Someone posted earlier that speakers can't resolve enough detail to make such measurements relevent. If speakers can not resolve enough detail to produce a valid measurment, it's highly unlikely our woefully inadequate ears can!
I'm not sure that it will be that easy, firstly, the brain are able to track low level sounds in the presense of much louder sounds, a microphone can't. Also, I don't think the overall acoustic output is what really matter, it is the low level detail and timing that could differ.

Woefully inadequate ears? I'm not so sure.

André
 
Old 24th May 2008, 02:27 PM   #1299
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andre Visser


I'm not sure that it will be that easy, firstly, the brain are able to track low level sounds in the presense of much louder sounds, a microphone can't. Also, I don't think the overall acoustic output is what really matter, it is the low level detail and timing that could differ.

Woefully inadequate ears? I'm not so sure.

André

Greetings Andre, I only ment that our ears are pretty poor measurement devices. Factors which skew the results include......... Mood, mucus buildup, asprin, age, lack of sleep, hangovers, the war in Iraq, the release of that Sex In the city movie ( My God, they actually made a movie out of that drek!), hemiroids, Etc.
 
Old 24th May 2008, 02:32 PM   #1300
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Agreed, unfortunately they are all we have to listen with.
 

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