I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[-(daz84)-]

Seriously who cares about cable and how much they cost?? its all bull wether you like it or not... start by listening to music itself and your room etc etc...wake up and smell the roses.. stop wasting your time here and pay attention to your system. If you cant be arsed to take my advice then im laughing at you! Plus most use **** amps anyway that includes tripath and all that crap.

[DDF]

Originally Posted by gedlee

If science had played a more important role in audio then more money would have been spent on it. As it is science is virtually irrelavent and marketing rules and so more money is spent there. Bose (as a company) claims science is king, but I met Dr. Bose (the man) and from the horses mouth I got it that marketing is really king.

Virtually everything that I have done of significance in audio has been done on my own funds without any financial support. There has never been any money for research in audio - not in the US.

There are buckets of cash (less so now, but not insignificant) in telecom audio, however, understandably, it's not the same.

Telecom audio is low enough in grade that outcomes are quantifiable. High end audio, pfft. Have two people even agreed in this thread?

[Jakob2]

Originally Posted by gedlee

And what if that is not possible (or at least not feasible)? Then it's "hocus pocus and witchcraft" rules forever?

If were just for a moment pretending that Toole & Olive were correct with their findings about the groupwise difference between sighted and blind listening tests, then we have to conclude that the most important factors for listeners are to learn to listen and to control (as far as possible) the bias influence.

Obviously a real difference could be swamped out by external factors as rating _and_ ranking of loudspeakers could be changed.

Normally only two possibilities exist; restrict the choice of products with a set of standards that (at minimum) all have to fullfill or let a varity exists and educate the customers to make the right choice.

In the audio field there is a lack of real science and unfortunately even bad examples got published. Thats why i am so unhappy with the Meyer/Moran; they could be right with their results, but with this sort of documentation/description, obvious contradiction to earlier work from others without any discussion about the reasons, some statistically surprising results of subgroups that got not addressed, it should really not pass a review board.

So, even if there is "hocus pocus" and "bad science", if customers are able to listen and make correct decisions based on that, it wouldn´t matter.

@ auplater,

as posted before- one could learn a lot about stereotype thinking in this thread, so thank you for this perfect example.

Wishes

[janneman]

Originally Posted by Jakob2

No, i really don´t think so; maybe he could earn some merits for the efforts, but it wouldn´t raise the sales figures. If you think a moment about the varity of cables existing, the brands and different price targets (and vastly different combinations of gear) it became quite obvious why this could not happen.

Double blind test results are interesting for some aspects and if you are working scientifically then there is no alternative, but for the commercial success there impact is negligible.

Wishes

I see it differently. You yourself said that objective data would only be forthcoming if it could be translated in more sales and more money, I agree.
I think that any cable manufacturer who comes up with a scientific sound test that clearly shows that his cables are audible better than others, will immediately see more sales. People will love to by cables on a scientific reasoning! That is why I ask: why doesn't any cable manufacturer invest the money (assuming there IS an audible difference of course).

My theory is that most cable manufacturers are happy with the status quo: using well known and well proven marketing techniques they can generate lost of sales without much trouble, and they are not looking for a war amongst them that will undoubtedly leave some victims.

jd

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by janneman

People will love to by cables on a scientific reasoning!

My theory is that most cable manufacturers are happy with the status quo: using well known and well proven marketing techniques they can generate lost of sales without much trouble, and they are not looking for a war amongst them that will undoubtedly leave some victims.

jd

People are in fact buying cables on a scientific reasoning(see non-audiophool cable sales,or cheap cable sales )....................

As for your theory,do you know anyone who is not happy making much money without much trouble ? Not that I agree with your theory 100% but that is reality. Send me my cheque at home and I will never complain

My theory is that such marketing is purely forced by "audio press".They are the ones to make you a star,or bury you as a manufacturer.Very strictly speaking,even cable manufacturers have to live.

[KBK]

Originally Posted by SY

Pick up any issue of Stereophile. Or TAS. Or the websites of any of the cable peddlers. Lots of claims, easy to find. Lots of fraud. As much backup as the astrologers, creationists, free energy/ perpetual motion, and flat earthers. I.e., none, but gimmee your money.

You sir, are an opinionated shill, and should not be allowed any point or placement of moderation of this forum, in any way, shape, or form.

You should be removed from your position of moderation, permanently. You have violated the rules of moderation and neutrality, in many ways (with so many posts -it is nearly incalculable) over the years; most of them subtle and devious.

When your entire economic, scholastic, and corporate background -in all ways- involves the areas of research, exploration, and science that anyone attempting to explore the nature of 'complex electromagnetism at the molecular interactive levels' would begin to encounter and hence begin to unravel....when this is the only area of speculative work on this forum that you attack, I'd say there is ample evidence of an ulterior motive and shilling for your interests. Interests that are hidden, for the larger part, from the members of this forum, as those involvements and interests are not known by them.

[Magura]

KBK, you really gotta sober up.

woodoo and conspiracies all around you, huh?

Just think about this for a second:

What would SY gain from his stance regarding for instance cables?

Magura

[SY]

So I take it, Ken, that you don't have any valid (i.e., properly controlled) audibility tests demonstrating the audibility of the products you sell versus (say) Romex?

[markus76]

Originally Posted by Jakob2

Normally only two possibilities exist; restrict the choice of products with a set of standards that (at minimum) all have to fullfill or let a varity exists and educate the customers to make the right choice.

In my opninion only standardization would have the power to change things for the better.
Educate people? Why would anyone want to do this when it is so much easier and above all profitable to make people believe that expensive cables and other voodoo stuff make a significant difference?

By the way, why are "good sounding" cable always expensive? Expensive = good, because pricing is always based on the real value of a product? Get real!

[Panicos K]

Originally Posted by markus76

Educate people?

Right.Get an atheist for example to "educate" a believer.....because the believer cannot "prove" his faith and an atheist cannot prove there is no God.............

Yes,someone has to get real