I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[Salas]

Originally posted by Jakob2
@ Salas,



It´s only anecdotical evidence (as it was reported by members on several forums) that they cured themselves from being ´golden ear´ after participating in blind tests and failing.
After that they were convinced that for example cables doesn´t make an audible difference, and that they before were influenced by autosuggestion and argued that they now didn´t hear any differences anymore and if they would hear any differences in the future they now know that is would be only suggestion.

Others, who failed in dbts, said they heared the differences in normal listening situations again, and remained using the ´voodoo stuff´ .

You are absolutely right in stating that `one sense helps the other´ because we normally are used to live in that way. I´d think this is well known and confirmed in the field of psychology.

That is one reason why people need some training for blind tests.

Jakob2

Thank you.

[fredex]

Originally posted by salas


I ask for a third time. After we get proof that we can not distinguish cables after being subjected to DBT, will this prohibit the 'illusions' of sighted listening to reappear? (Later in normal -real life- listening.) If faith dies, miracles stop I think. But if miracles continue? Maybe sighted listening is far more analytical because one sense helps the other, and we must just delete fallibility pitfalls, but under sighted conditions? Maybe by a panel of people listening alone, keeping notes, and not allowed to communicate until results are processed?

Your input please.

Firstly I like Jakob2 's reply, especially

.... that they cured themselves from being ´golden ear´ after participating in blind tests and failing.

This has been my experience... I have learnt to be more objective by a better understanding of how my senses operate. But like most DIYers I like building stuff not participating in endless Blind Testing so I am still a victim of auto suggestion. If I pickup a component and it is Mil spec or used by NASA I will probably use it just because I have "faith" that it will sound better even though it may not.

As to being "cured" by DBT I guess as Jakob2 says it depends on the individual.

[Salas]

Originally posted by fredex


Firstly I like Jakob2 's reply, especially
This has been my experience... I have learnt to be more objective by a better understanding of how my senses operate. But like most DIYers I like building stuff not participating in endless Blind Testing so I am still a victim of auto suggestion. If I pickup a component and it is Mil spec or used by NASA I will probably use it just because I have "faith" that it will sound better even though it may not.

As to being "cured" by DBT I guess as Jakob2 says it depends on the individual.

Thank you.

Would you consider as controlled testing the following idea?:

Some sighted component evaluation of say 5 listeners taking turns.They will be not allowed any communication, and they will have a specific form to keep notes. Time will be individually slack enough. The data will be processed by a 6th person who never listened to the component.

[fredex]

Originally posted by salas



Thank you.

Would you consider as controlled testing the following idea?:

Some sighted component evaluation of say 5 listeners taking turns.They will be not allowed any communication, and they will have a specific form to keep notes. Time will be individually slack enough. The data will be processed by a 6th person who never listened to the component.

I am no expert on testing but I think you will just end up with 5 opinions that have been influenced by the look of the components.
What components are you thinking of, and are they to be compared with other components?

[Salas]

Originally posted by fredex

I am no expert on testing but I think you will just end up with 5 opinions that have been influenced by the look of the components.
What components are you thinking of, and are they to be compared with other components?

2 same amplifiers, only made with a different set of passive components and hook up wire. Sealed cases.

[fredex]

salas
Maybe you would need another "control" group who were sent identical amps that were actually the same. But they would be told that the same story as the first group.
My guess is that the control group would hear differences because they believed that the amps were different. Interesting idea.

[Salas]

Originally posted by fredex
salas
Maybe you would need another "control" group who were sent identical amps that were actually the same. But they would be told that the same story as the first group.
My guess is that the control group would hear differences because they believed that the amps were different. Interesting idea.

We will probably get high fallibility amongst the absolutely identical amps group.

We humans are fallible. No doubt about it.

My attention would be mostly in the actual written sonic descriptions amongst the first group. The group that knows there are cheap or expensive components in two identically looking sealed amps.

[fredex]

Yes it would be nice to see some sort of consensus.

[tc-60guy]

Originally posted by fredex
Yes it would be nice to see some sort of consensus.

Howdy, Great idea Fredex! That will happen right after Osama Bin Laden opens up that glat kosher deli in haifa! Objectivists and subjectivists are a contentious lot! It reminds me of the great Certs candy mint or breath mint conumdrum. Madness, utter madness!

[tc-60guy]

Hello all, Excuse me for my late night bloviations, but Iv'e been drinking high octane Russian beer, so here goes! This pontification apply's to subjectivists and objectivists in equal measure...... To be a good scientist you must be willing to eat your own children! When you come up with a hypothesis no matter how elegant or appealing, you must immediately attack it as if it were your worst enemy. It is only through this trial by fire that truth is separated from dross. This rigor also keeps you open minded as you admit that all ideas including your own are human and therefor fallible. The path of shurety is the path of the fool. Yoda, eat your heart out!