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Old 24th January 2010, 03:47 PM   #11311
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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Originally Posted by AJinFLA View Post
Was ist Deine Ausrede? In all of Germany? Really?
Why should i know what "in all of Germany" exists? I´ve only posted that i did blind test and double blind tests with ~120 people.

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Was ist Deine Ausrede? Who said "Journal", other than you? You could not post it here, on this very forum you frequent, for peer review?
You should know, as it was you.

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Was ist Deine Ausrede? So we are stuck in the online version of "Ground Hog Day"? An endless loop. Those who can do, won't, those who can't do, will, only to be nitpicked from the peanut gallery by those who can, but won't.
Or is that can't?
Who does tests and draws generalized conclusions from the results, has
to do objective, reliable and valid tests, it´s as simple as that.


Wishes
 
Old 24th January 2010, 03:54 PM   #11312
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
(While it maybe a fourth hand anecdote, that topic it relies on seems to be quite substantial)
More than I thought. By coincidence I was reading Superfreakonomics, the latest Levitt/Dubner collaboration, and discovered they look at a similar effect in proffesional sports. Simply put, because junior sports is divided by age group, and at an early age one year is a big difference is size and speed, children born at the start of the year receive more encouragement, training and opportunity. As a result professional athletes with birthdays in the first half of the year greatly outnumber those in the second.
And please, don't anyone bother arguing encouragement and attention affects performance while accusations of witchery, self-delusion, and that perennial fantasy "it's all about $$$$$" are performance neutral. That's counter to all common sense.
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Old 24th January 2010, 04:14 PM   #11313
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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This test does not seem to have been mentioned here:
YouTube - Townshend Audio Isolda Speaker Cable "geometry matters"
(it came up on another forum I read)

Nice test, but I don't see anything here that isn't due to LCR differences.
This is similar to the test I proposed to the Randi institute.
The Cerwin Vega tests were similar, measuring at each end of the cable.
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Old 24th January 2010, 04:16 PM   #11314
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Originally Posted by jacco vermeulen View Post
Only if you have a 20k transformer to boast with.
I'm afraid my **** ain't quite that big.

se
 
Old 24th January 2010, 05:24 PM   #11315
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdf View Post
More than I thought. By coincidence I was reading Superfreakonomics, the latest Levitt/Dubner collaboration, and discovered they look at a similar effect in proffesional sports. Simply put, because junior sports is divided by age group, and at an early age one year is a big difference is size and speed, children born at the start of the year receive more encouragement, training and opportunity. As a result professional athletes with birthdays in the first half of the year greatly outnumber those in the second.
Wow, the analogies get even more strained. Keep it up and you'll need a truss. Or are you suggesting that tests of magic wire effects should be restricted to people born in January? Maybe that explains my skepticism- my birthday is in December (same day as jneutron, coincidentally).
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Old 24th January 2010, 05:48 PM   #11316
rdf is offline rdf  Canada
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Wow, the analogies get even more strained..... my birthday is in December
So is my mother's. What analogy? It was just another data point of recognition that performance can be affected by others. We're starting at square one here. You seem to be working from a model of human psychology best described as robot. Of a sorts anyway, completely impervious to animate influence but irrevocably the pawn of the inanimate, like cable colours or price tags.
While on team sports, it would be more convincing if you found issue with AJ's unrelenting claim of omniscience. Burden of proof rests not on the claimant but on sides apparently.
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Old 24th January 2010, 05:56 PM   #11317
SY is offline SY  United States
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Burden of proof rests on claimant. Burden of proof especially rests on claimant when making extraordinary claims. Contra Jakob, it is not the responsibility of physicists to spend time testing perpetual motion machines when the guys peddling them won't provide data nor details on experimental design. Likewise, when fabulous claims of non-mundane audibility are put forth, it is the responsibility of claimants to present evidence, not of the engineering community to spend time and effort debunking them.
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Old 24th January 2010, 06:13 PM   #11318
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Originally Posted by rdf View Post
...Simply put, because junior sports is divided by age group, and at an early age one year is a big difference is size and speed, children born at the start of the year receive more encouragement, training and opportunity. As a result professional athletes with birthdays in the first half of the year greatly outnumber those in the second.
The fact that they are, on average, 6 months older than their peers, during any given school year is less of a possibility than "encouragement, training and opportunity" in their success?

This has what to do with adults listening to music?

Quote:
Burden of proof rests not on the claimant but on sides apparently.
Since when?

Posted by John Curl -
Quote:
This is how we grow, rather than stay in place, with excessive demands for hard proof, etc.


....without Examination is Prejudice.
 
Old 24th January 2010, 07:33 PM   #11319
AJinFLA is offline AJinFLA  United States
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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
I always choose wires for acoustic issues,but not for altering FR
I will be listening to my system,not measuring it.
So you don't/can't measure, but you know FR is not altered by your magic wires.
That's quite a conundrum.

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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
I don't have any "references" that I follow.
This is the biggest problem with audiophiles. They have no familiarity with (the reference of) science, or live acoustic sounds, so they must rely on what is read in HiFi rags. If you used live acoustic music as a reference and gained some familiarity, you would quickly hear the limitations of a small dome over cone on the face of a resonating box...and that there is no "wire sound" in real life. Those are imaginary constructs of electro-acoustic systems.

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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
Aren't those cabinet resonances part of the whole problem?
For the rationalist, only if it is audible. For the subjectivist, whatever they believe.

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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
If I consider my speakers as the "source",then,IMO I have a trully great source.
Then you definitely need a reference.
Seek out someone who has an Orion, Summa or Synergy Horn, to hear what great (reproduction) sound waves are like, rather than mere pretty woodworking.
Unless of course the latter is the most important.
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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
Experimenting for free with room treatments will not do any harm,and I will learn something.
You will learn whether you like killing spaciousness. Without a "live acoustics" reference, you may well like it, as many audiophiles do.
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Originally Posted by Panicos K View Post
But if room treatments are bandaids in your opinion,would you like to tell me what DSP is?To me it sounds like having two wrongs to make a right.....or am I wrong
DSP is electronic adjustment at the source, not passive damage to the reverberant field. If the source is linear and well designed, only minor correction at LF for inevitable mode peaks suppression are required. And no, a $20k piece of audio jewelry is utterly useless in this regard (to real world issues), just in case you were wondering .

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Originally Posted by Andre Visser View Post
Perhaps we must start a thread "Subjective evaluation of cables."
The ensuing chaos and disarray of opinions would be a sight to behold. Please do .

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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
it makes me wonder why Shanefield insisted that Johnsen should at least do single blind tests, because he already had done that.

"What I suggested in my exchange of letters with Johnsen is that he do some blind tests and tell us about the results. These don't have to be done with DPDT switches just have a disinterested person unhook the wires and hook them up again with reversed polarity."
In a double blind, would you want the switcher to not know he was unhooking wires? How would you do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
I already explained that in the previous post; while the scientific communitiy is able (and interested) to avoid such a factor in upcoming experiments, the "normal listener" isn´t always in the position to get rid off his speakers to avoid a possible factor.
Right. Now what does that have to do with my question?

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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post

Please try sometimes to follow an argument; everything is fine, if you insisted that the burden of proof is on the shoulder of the claimant (whatever claim he´s made), but if somebody present the _claim_ that the didn´t hear something than he has to show that it wasn´t only due to the fact that he doesn´t want to hear something. (a bit exaggerated for clearness, more unintentionally it would be just the well known expectation bias of )
It's difficult to follow, lacking any logic. IOW, prove a negative? That I can't hear "it"? What "it"?
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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
I´m sorry but expectation bias doesn´t only occur in cases where you want it.
Right. Then there is "nothing to hear", where expectation...or not...means squat.

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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
There´s a difference between "Ausrede/excuse" and "Erklärung/explanation" .
Right. And it's clear which one accounts for why you have no blind tests to show...and never will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
Why should i know what "in all of Germany" exists? I´ve only posted that i did blind test and double blind tests with ~120 people.
In all of Germany there is not an abundance of "wire hearers"? Not on all the online audio forums? No one available even in this thread? Really?

cheers,

AJ
 
Old 24th January 2010, 08:02 PM   #11320
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I believe what I hear. To ignore it would be crazy.
 

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