I don't believe cables make a difference, any input?

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by AJinFLA
Be not jealous, for jealousy lead to hate....and we know what hate leads to.
AJ

Yes we know, constipated little chimps.

[Andre Visser]

Originally posted by nunayafb

It would be easier to believe this test occurred if you provided the test parameters.

Sorry, missed this part.

I've listened to the four different cables, playing my favourite test track, knowing which cable is used. Then I left the room and a friend and the cable importer would randomly insert a set of cables, then I go back in to listen and could name which cable is playing. This was repeated 12 times.

Yes they have covered everything so that I could not see what was used

[nunayafb]

Sorry dude, but I don't believe you....
All we have is your word that all of these electrically equivalent cables sound different, and that you didn't see them, or that this test occurred and you didn't just go to a website and pick 4 cables!

But I am willing to play along.
I feel confident in saying that if you heard a difference it should be measurable. If it is measurable then those are crappy cables. But being that they all use high quality conductors and shielding- I would bet these all perform the same.

Cables allow voltage to pass from A to B, they have a DCR and frequency dependent impedance and noise rejection. Quality cables have low DCR, flat impedance curve (in audio band) and shielded enough to keep noise out (if you routed them poorly).

Thats it, there is no magic! Speakers convert the voltage they receive to sound-there is no spiritual musical aura that is passed through the many useless layer of "high end" audio cables. It is just voltage.

[KBK]

If you guys think these arguments about cables are bad now..they are going to get considerably worse in the next while. Hang on to your hats. Enjoy the debate. 'iffin you can.

[Brett]

Originally posted by KBK
If you guys think these arguments about cables are bad now..they are going to get considerably worse in the next while.

Any particular reason why?

[BudP]

Any particular reason why?

Maybe I should start an EnABL cable war. Could be almost as much fun as the original!

Bud

[KBK]

Oh, they likely will. Is all. Carry on, all is goodness, etc.

[Alan Hope]

Originally posted by nunayafb
Sorry dude, but I don't believe you....
All we have is your word ... etc

But I am willing to play along.
I feel confident in saying that if you heard a difference it should be measurable. If it is measurable then those are crappy cables. But being that they all use high quality conductors and shielding- I would bet these all perform the same.

Cables allow voltage to pass from A to B, they have a DCR and frequency dependent impedance and noise rejection. Quality cables have low DCR, flat impedance curve (in audio band) and shielded enough to keep noise out (if you routed them poorly).

Thats it, there is no magic! Speakers convert the voltage they receive to sound-there is no spiritual musical aura that is passed through the many useless layer of "high end" audio cables. It is just voltage.

You know, there is major psychology going on on the "objectivist" side of this debate. If you start with the preconception that scientifically all cables must sound the same, and simply refuse to even begin to consider claims otherwise then you have a psychologically entrenched position.

I retain a foot in each camp. I hear burn-in changes, but the nature of what I hear suggests a significant influence of psychology. It is clear from posts like the above that should I try to double-blind my cable listening I will simply be disbelieved if I can differentiate cables.

One of our "objectivist" posters claimed that he would only accept non-tweak things, and his list included speaker-height. Well can I challenge him - listen blinded to your speakers at normal height, then again 2 feet higher. Can you identify which is which 100% of the time. I'm willing to bet it would be pretty close to 50:50. Therefore - to apply the logic that started this thread - scientifically the auditory effects of speaker height MUST be entirely psychological. And anybody who ever says otherwise is deluded and to be pitied.

But then entrenched positions are so easy to hold, and feel so reassuringly strong - don't they?

[SY]

If you start with the preconception that scientifically all cables must sound the same, and simply refuse to even begin to consider claims otherwise then you have a psychologically entrenched position.

Straw man.

The problem with "considering a claim" is that the claim has to actually have some evidence for it to be considered. Cable-sound evidence, to date, has been demonstrated and no-one disbelieves it. What has NOT been backed with any evidence whatever is that factors beyond the gross effects of LCR on frequency response and stability have any significance.

All it takes is... evidence. Not stories. Not unsubstantiated claims. Not anecdotes. Evidence.

[MartinQ]

Originally posted by Alan Hope
One of our "objectivist" posters claimed that he would only accept non-tweak things, and his list included speaker-height. Well can I challenge him - listen blinded to your speakers at normal height, then again 2 feet higher. Can you identify which is which 100% of the time. I'm willing to bet it would be pretty close to 50:50. Therefore - to apply the logic that started this thread - scientifically the auditory effects of speaker height MUST be entirely psychological. And anybody who ever says otherwise is deluded and to be pitied.

But then entrenched positions are so easy to hold, and feel so reassuringly strong - don't they?

Changes in speaker height can be measured in the acoustic response. Your listening angle and distance changes as well as the relation to the rooms boundaries (modes, reflections, etc.)

Changes in similar cables cannot be measured. Similar being in length and LCR values.