Hi
I have been using the presrige kit for same time now, This uses the atc mid but with volt rv3143 and scanspeak d2905/990000.
This has a open and smooth sound is the one of best speaker that I have heard.
The speaker that this replaced was atc's smc 20.
The peaple at wilmslow are very helpfull.
David
I have been using the presrige kit for same time now, This uses the atc mid but with volt rv3143 and scanspeak d2905/990000.
This has a open and smooth sound is the one of best speaker that I have heard.
The speaker that this replaced was atc's smc 20.
The peaple at wilmslow are very helpfull.
David
Thank you for your reply.
I am interested in the Prestige as well, it seems like a very high end
system for a decent price (still not cheap but reasonable considering the high end drivers implemented)
It would be great if you could comment on some of these aspects maybe giving a rating from (terrible)1-10(exceptional).
Overall driver integration (crossover point choice)
Stereo imaging / depth and positioning of instruments
Smoothness of high frequency response
Detail of the midrange
Depth and accuracy of bass response
Low frequency extension
Many thanks it is difficult to find reviews on their products depsite being
generally well regarded. It is still quite an investment in time and money.
I am interested in the Prestige as well, it seems like a very high end
system for a decent price (still not cheap but reasonable considering the high end drivers implemented)
It would be great if you could comment on some of these aspects maybe giving a rating from (terrible)1-10(exceptional).
Overall driver integration (crossover point choice)
Stereo imaging / depth and positioning of instruments
Smoothness of high frequency response
Detail of the midrange
Depth and accuracy of bass response
Low frequency extension
Many thanks it is difficult to find reviews on their products depsite being
generally well regarded. It is still quite an investment in time and money.
Hi
To all the point you have noted this is very good Speaker.
The atc mid is the best mid driver I have heard, There may be a beater mid in the pro speaker market but this is not availble to the diy market.
Bass extension is from adout 25hz in room. I have built them in 110 litres cabnets.
The bass driver is not overly warm. This speaker is very open and shows any change's mayed to the equiment in front of it.
David
To all the point you have noted this is very good Speaker.
The atc mid is the best mid driver I have heard, There may be a beater mid in the pro speaker market but this is not availble to the diy market.
Bass extension is from adout 25hz in room. I have built them in 110 litres cabnets.
The bass driver is not overly warm. This speaker is very open and shows any change's mayed to the equiment in front of it.
David
Took a long time to reply but I went PMC IB1's and sadly did not get a chance to ehar the Wilmslow audio speakers.
SafeandSound
online mastering
SafeandSound
online mastering
I’ve just built the TL12, using the ATC mid, Volt RV3143 and scanspeak tweeter, exact same drivers as the Prestige, but transmission line rather than reflex.
When I went to WA to listen to it, I was hoping to compare it to the K50 or K100, but they didn’t have any built up, there were a pair of Prestige in the same room as the TL12. I took along a stack of CDs that I know really well, and that I've always suspected can sound a lot better than they have done on my previous speakers.
The TL was similar to studio main monitors I work with occasionally e.g. PMC and ATC, lots of detail, very neutral, but without the rasping brutality of some of them. Similar great imaging, everything sounding very three-dimensional and real, and in the vicinity of the speakers rather than seeming to come directly from them. Bottom end very dry and not at all overblown so you hear the contact of beater on bass drum head and not just a thump, piano textures vary in “colour” with harmonic overtones and don’t “bloom” exaggeratedly as they did with my previous speakers, soprano sax doesn’t resonate round the room, it’s just realistic and right there in front of you… basically everything I was after in a speaker.
I tried the Prestige for comparison… totally different. They were in a less ideal position in the room (closer together, right up against the back wall) and gave thumpy bass, smudgy shouty middle, harsh treble, the difference was huge. Maybe without the benefit of direct comparison I’d have thought they were ok, but hearing them just after the TL12s they sounded crass and not at all what I was after, a bit like PA speakers I’ve built myself when in a hurry. Neil said they’re basically the same as the K100, but I can’t quite make sense of that as the Ks are described as a “monitor”, and the Prestige definitely didn’t sound to me like a monitor.
Now that the TL12s are up and running at home, they sound every bit as gob-smackingly fantastic as they did at WA, the bass doesn’t set the room off too badly, it’s still dry and realistic, midrange imaging is superb, though I still haven’t sorted out room reflections that seem to affect treble imaging.
I was recently involved in mixing an album using Tandberg monitors, and listening to the same recording at home on the TL12s nothing is lost - I’m usually suspicious of claims like “as good as speakers three times the price”, but in this case I think it’s probably roughly true. Basically everything I could hear in the studio on £10k’s worth of monitors is still clear on the TLs, but they also fill the room with luscious sound like nice hifi speakers, there’s nothing harsh on the ear that isn’t indended in the original recording, violin bow scraping doesn’t saw yer ears off, but it’s definitely clearly there, and sibilance doesn’t jump out as though disconnected from the voice it’s coming from.
I did a bit of testing, in a limited way as I only have a couple of test CDs with sine wave sweeps and warble tones, mainly to try and find the best siting in the room, I haven’t quite got to the bottom of that but it seems positioning isn’t critical. The usual pulsing I get on a sine wave sweep, as the pitch goes past frequencies that resonate/don’t resonate/cancel… is minimal, obviously I can’t remove the room acoustic to find out how much of it is inherent in the speakers, but it’s definitely smoother than any other speaker I’ve had here.
It’s hard to give 0-10 ratings as it’s subjective so I can’t really stand by these ratings but 10 just means I can’t imagine it being any better without a better example to compare to, and it’s in the context of the fact that these are by a huge margin the best speakers I’ve had here ever. For almost all these questions, it’s hard to tell how much room reflections are interfering. Similarly, “detail of the midrange” is a tough one, as whatever I can’t hear, I can’t hear therefore I don’t know it’s supposed to be there, i.e. I can hear 100% of what I can hear! What I will add though is that I’m hearing all sorts of new stuff on recordings I’ve known well for decades, and for the first time ever these speakers unravel certain “congestions” of sound that were previously just a mush - if that doesn’t make any sense I’ll find an example to illustrate it.
Overall driver integration (crossover point choice) 10
Stereo imaging / depth and positioning of instruments 8
Smoothness of high frequency response 8
Detail of the midrange 10
Depth and accuracy of bass response 8
Low frequency extension 10
Quality of the cabs is pretty good, the accuracy of the cutting and the rebates etc is excellent which makes gluing them up really easy, though you need LOTS of big clamps, sash cramps, straps, blocks to wedge them out with and apply pressure at stategic points. The MDF needs a bit of careful handling, some narrow bits round the transmission ports cracked under clamping so I had to get a bit creative with straps, blocks of wood to put pressure on the right places while the glue dried. Re-gluing split layers of MDF is a bit of a pain, next time I’ll be a bit more gentle in the first place!
When I went to WA to listen to it, I was hoping to compare it to the K50 or K100, but they didn’t have any built up, there were a pair of Prestige in the same room as the TL12. I took along a stack of CDs that I know really well, and that I've always suspected can sound a lot better than they have done on my previous speakers.
The TL was similar to studio main monitors I work with occasionally e.g. PMC and ATC, lots of detail, very neutral, but without the rasping brutality of some of them. Similar great imaging, everything sounding very three-dimensional and real, and in the vicinity of the speakers rather than seeming to come directly from them. Bottom end very dry and not at all overblown so you hear the contact of beater on bass drum head and not just a thump, piano textures vary in “colour” with harmonic overtones and don’t “bloom” exaggeratedly as they did with my previous speakers, soprano sax doesn’t resonate round the room, it’s just realistic and right there in front of you… basically everything I was after in a speaker.
I tried the Prestige for comparison… totally different. They were in a less ideal position in the room (closer together, right up against the back wall) and gave thumpy bass, smudgy shouty middle, harsh treble, the difference was huge. Maybe without the benefit of direct comparison I’d have thought they were ok, but hearing them just after the TL12s they sounded crass and not at all what I was after, a bit like PA speakers I’ve built myself when in a hurry. Neil said they’re basically the same as the K100, but I can’t quite make sense of that as the Ks are described as a “monitor”, and the Prestige definitely didn’t sound to me like a monitor.
Now that the TL12s are up and running at home, they sound every bit as gob-smackingly fantastic as they did at WA, the bass doesn’t set the room off too badly, it’s still dry and realistic, midrange imaging is superb, though I still haven’t sorted out room reflections that seem to affect treble imaging.
I was recently involved in mixing an album using Tandberg monitors, and listening to the same recording at home on the TL12s nothing is lost - I’m usually suspicious of claims like “as good as speakers three times the price”, but in this case I think it’s probably roughly true. Basically everything I could hear in the studio on £10k’s worth of monitors is still clear on the TLs, but they also fill the room with luscious sound like nice hifi speakers, there’s nothing harsh on the ear that isn’t indended in the original recording, violin bow scraping doesn’t saw yer ears off, but it’s definitely clearly there, and sibilance doesn’t jump out as though disconnected from the voice it’s coming from.
I did a bit of testing, in a limited way as I only have a couple of test CDs with sine wave sweeps and warble tones, mainly to try and find the best siting in the room, I haven’t quite got to the bottom of that but it seems positioning isn’t critical. The usual pulsing I get on a sine wave sweep, as the pitch goes past frequencies that resonate/don’t resonate/cancel… is minimal, obviously I can’t remove the room acoustic to find out how much of it is inherent in the speakers, but it’s definitely smoother than any other speaker I’ve had here.
It’s hard to give 0-10 ratings as it’s subjective so I can’t really stand by these ratings but 10 just means I can’t imagine it being any better without a better example to compare to, and it’s in the context of the fact that these are by a huge margin the best speakers I’ve had here ever. For almost all these questions, it’s hard to tell how much room reflections are interfering. Similarly, “detail of the midrange” is a tough one, as whatever I can’t hear, I can’t hear therefore I don’t know it’s supposed to be there, i.e. I can hear 100% of what I can hear! What I will add though is that I’m hearing all sorts of new stuff on recordings I’ve known well for decades, and for the first time ever these speakers unravel certain “congestions” of sound that were previously just a mush - if that doesn’t make any sense I’ll find an example to illustrate it.
Overall driver integration (crossover point choice) 10
Stereo imaging / depth and positioning of instruments 8
Smoothness of high frequency response 8
Detail of the midrange 10
Depth and accuracy of bass response 8
Low frequency extension 10
Quality of the cabs is pretty good, the accuracy of the cutting and the rebates etc is excellent which makes gluing them up really easy, though you need LOTS of big clamps, sash cramps, straps, blocks to wedge them out with and apply pressure at stategic points. The MDF needs a bit of careful handling, some narrow bits round the transmission ports cracked under clamping so I had to get a bit creative with straps, blocks of wood to put pressure on the right places while the glue dried. Re-gluing split layers of MDF is a bit of a pain, next time I’ll be a bit more gentle in the first place!
Thanks for posting that. I haven't come across a lot of opinions on wilmslow audios kits so it's good to hear one when it comes along. what made you choose atc over volt mid? (Aside from the price). Do you have or have you seen any measurements of your/other WA speakers? What size is the room you are using them in?
I chose ATC mids initially cos of price (I was struggling to scrape the dosh together as it was!) but also cos I've worked with those exact drivers in various studios, though some might have been the extra-special version they keep for their own speakers, so I knew roughly what to expect. I don't have the gear to measure responses etc. The room, which is roughly 7 metres by 5, is lined all the way round with shelves crammed with gear, so effectively it's a bit like a huge bass diffuser, but I need to shift stuff around a bit as some treble signals reflect audibly off surfaces, which messes up the imaging. I've set them up longways i.e. at one end of the room, I haven't tried them across the room yet.
I can't seriously compare them to previous speakers as nothing's been in the same league - here's what I've used in the past:
When the room was first built I had Mission 753 Freedoms, very pleasant but basically a mush.
Then for years I had Spendor S8s, they have a rear port right at the bottom, a sort of half-way house between transmission line and reflex, which to my mind doesn't work, I could never find a decent position for them, the bass was always gutless and slow albeit never lacking in amount.
A friend brought round his Dynaudio something-or-others, similar size to the Spendors, bass much better but still kinda weirdly cancelling out or doubling up depending on where you were in the room.
I also tried various stand-mounts; Spendor S3, Spendor S3/5R (I think that's what it's called - it's the sealed cab version, very clean bass but sort of NO bass),
Some old lovely Mordaunt Shorts
Noize monitors,
Dynaudio BM5A, probably the best of the lot (a massive faff to connect them to the Naim gear)
I also have a pair of Wilmslow Audio Phoenix which I got years ago, they're really lovely but a bit too pleasant.
Then another mate gave me a totally unused pair of 40 year old Leak 2030s, these were way above everything else for detail and focussed imaging, but of course were lacking at the bottom end, nevertheless the bass was way more articulate and tuneful than anything I've used ever. Just my preference, being able to hear real notes at the bottom makes up for some lack of weight. Given the 40 year old technology they cracked up at high volume and there was a risk of shredding them.
I also for a while used my PA as hifi, Shermann speakers, (not easy to get Naim speaker cable into Speakons!) with 15" subs... absolutely rockin'! and reasonably detailed, as it's a quality-rather-than-quantity type system... but still ultimately harsh to listen to, and I missed the subtlety and roundness of hifi speakers.
A couple of months ago I tried PMC Twenty5 23, bass was stunning, esp considering they're so narrow with tiny drivers... but detail wasn't anywhere as good as the 40 year old Leaks, though they were more neutral tonally. Soundstage didn't go as far back,
These TL12s do everything better than any speaker I've had in here, the one exception being the punch and power of the PA subs, but it's perfectly good enough, and I reckon once I sort out some bi-amping and get something meatier on the bass drivers then even that may be comparable. I can now hear real notes at the bottom end, WITH power and weight.
Sorry for the life history rather than answering your question about measurement, but whereas previous speakers tended to get harsh at high volume, these seem to breeze along effortlessly with the same system, and one telling thing is that when I set what seems to be a reasonable level, any conversation has to be shouted, i.e. when pushed loud they don't sound loud, the music is just the same but bigger. And soundstage goes on and on forever!
BTW the system is Naim CDX2 with an XPS, NAC282 with a Supercap, NAP250. Bass headroom is the only thing I reckon could be better, so any ideas for a separate amp for the bass units would be welcome! Got some great PA amps here but I can't use any of them as they all have noisy fans.
I can't seriously compare them to previous speakers as nothing's been in the same league - here's what I've used in the past:
When the room was first built I had Mission 753 Freedoms, very pleasant but basically a mush.
Then for years I had Spendor S8s, they have a rear port right at the bottom, a sort of half-way house between transmission line and reflex, which to my mind doesn't work, I could never find a decent position for them, the bass was always gutless and slow albeit never lacking in amount.
A friend brought round his Dynaudio something-or-others, similar size to the Spendors, bass much better but still kinda weirdly cancelling out or doubling up depending on where you were in the room.
I also tried various stand-mounts; Spendor S3, Spendor S3/5R (I think that's what it's called - it's the sealed cab version, very clean bass but sort of NO bass),
Some old lovely Mordaunt Shorts
Noize monitors,
Dynaudio BM5A, probably the best of the lot (a massive faff to connect them to the Naim gear)
I also have a pair of Wilmslow Audio Phoenix which I got years ago, they're really lovely but a bit too pleasant.
Then another mate gave me a totally unused pair of 40 year old Leak 2030s, these were way above everything else for detail and focussed imaging, but of course were lacking at the bottom end, nevertheless the bass was way more articulate and tuneful than anything I've used ever. Just my preference, being able to hear real notes at the bottom makes up for some lack of weight. Given the 40 year old technology they cracked up at high volume and there was a risk of shredding them.
I also for a while used my PA as hifi, Shermann speakers, (not easy to get Naim speaker cable into Speakons!) with 15" subs... absolutely rockin'! and reasonably detailed, as it's a quality-rather-than-quantity type system... but still ultimately harsh to listen to, and I missed the subtlety and roundness of hifi speakers.
A couple of months ago I tried PMC Twenty5 23, bass was stunning, esp considering they're so narrow with tiny drivers... but detail wasn't anywhere as good as the 40 year old Leaks, though they were more neutral tonally. Soundstage didn't go as far back,
These TL12s do everything better than any speaker I've had in here, the one exception being the punch and power of the PA subs, but it's perfectly good enough, and I reckon once I sort out some bi-amping and get something meatier on the bass drivers then even that may be comparable. I can now hear real notes at the bottom end, WITH power and weight.
Sorry for the life history rather than answering your question about measurement, but whereas previous speakers tended to get harsh at high volume, these seem to breeze along effortlessly with the same system, and one telling thing is that when I set what seems to be a reasonable level, any conversation has to be shouted, i.e. when pushed loud they don't sound loud, the music is just the same but bigger. And soundstage goes on and on forever!
BTW the system is Naim CDX2 with an XPS, NAC282 with a Supercap, NAP250. Bass headroom is the only thing I reckon could be better, so any ideas for a separate amp for the bass units would be welcome! Got some great PA amps here but I can't use any of them as they all have noisy fans.
Hey that's a fantastic idea, didn't think of that. I'll check out how realistic it is for the amps I've got, and how silent silent fans really are. The most likely candidates are Shermann 104A (rebadged Matrix 800), though as they're 1U they have pretty tiny fans, but I'll see what there is in that size and spec. Thanks!
OK... now tried a couple of silent fans... not silent enough. One was in a 2U Behringer, the other was in the aforementioned 1U Shermann (204A, not 104 like I said and it's not quite a re-badged Matrix 800 now I look closer, but they are both pretty similar). Could be it's not just the fan dB rating but also how the airflow goes through the amp, but neither was nearly quiet enough. As the realistic budget is currently zero, I'll just stick with the one amp for now.
Anyway, apologies for the thread hijack - back to Wilmslow Audio: meanwhile I'm only getting more and more in love with the TL12s. My partner is totally smitten too (with the speakers...) she's also a muso, checks first edits of her own recordings on my gear so knows exactly what went down in the sessions, and a friend (another musician) who's into hifi is also bowled over. I'd definitely recommend anyone going and having a listen. I've been up to WA twice for demos, last time was over 10 years ago for a Phoenix kit which is still going strong. The guys are great, there's no schmoozing, no hard sell, no pomp, no disparaging banter about other people's gear... the place is basically a workshop and an office, they just make you a cuppa and leave you to your own devices in the dem room, which for me is the best possible approach. The time I went years ago the front end wasn't great but this time they had something vaguely tasty to drive the speakers with. I was there on my own for 40 minutes or so going methodically through a pile of CDs I'd brought with me and a list of issues associated with them, and every single aspect came up excellent.
Anyway, apologies for the thread hijack - back to Wilmslow Audio: meanwhile I'm only getting more and more in love with the TL12s. My partner is totally smitten too (with the speakers...) she's also a muso, checks first edits of her own recordings on my gear so knows exactly what went down in the sessions, and a friend (another musician) who's into hifi is also bowled over. I'd definitely recommend anyone going and having a listen. I've been up to WA twice for demos, last time was over 10 years ago for a Phoenix kit which is still going strong. The guys are great, there's no schmoozing, no hard sell, no pomp, no disparaging banter about other people's gear... the place is basically a workshop and an office, they just make you a cuppa and leave you to your own devices in the dem room, which for me is the best possible approach. The time I went years ago the front end wasn't great but this time they had something vaguely tasty to drive the speakers with. I was there on my own for 40 minutes or so going methodically through a pile of CDs I'd brought with me and a list of issues associated with them, and every single aspect came up excellent.
Would you mind to post some pictures?
Can't really rate its size according to these few pictures online
They're 120cm high, c.46cm deep, 38cm wide. Perspective slightly exaggerates how small they make a double bass look!
They're pretty heavy, I haven't tried lifting one, I've only "walked" them around the room.
Dunno if I'll ever get round to veneering or painting them. Haven't even sanded the excess glue off. TBH I listen to them rather than look at them so might never bother.
[/url]IMG_0145 by Raph Mizraki, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]IMG_0144 by Raph Mizraki, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]IMG_0146 by Raph Mizraki, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]IMG_0147 by Raph Mizraki, on Flickr[/IMG]
[/url]IMG_0142 by Raph Mizraki, on Flickr[/IMG]
They're pretty heavy, I haven't tried lifting one, I've only "walked" them around the room.
Dunno if I'll ever get round to veneering or painting them. Haven't even sanded the excess glue off. TBH I listen to them rather than look at them so might never bother.
Oh geez haha... I was so sure it was a cello until I read your post.
They look humongous if that's a double-bass!
Did you ever had the chance to listen to some real ATC SCM50ASL or PMC IB1/IB2/MB2?
Wonder if you can state anything if those Wilmslow Audios can hold up against them.
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