Big Peerless woofer midrange performace

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by alspe

W2 you don't really can't use with 10-12" because they are too insensitive.

Do you mean the TB W2-800SL I mentioned ?

[alspe]

Originally Posted by tinitus

Do you mean the TB W2-800SL I mentioned ?

Yes. 87 dB is not enough for A26re4. It is not far away but there's no sense in lowering spl of bass.

[MisterTwister]

that seas has 3.37 mH inductance. if it really had a good cone, we would see downward FR slope, not a flat one.
It has too much enegy storage - IMO the main reason why large woofers can't be used at higher frequencies. It would require some advanced corrugated composite material cone, to tame excessive energy storage.

[doug20]

Originally Posted by sidewaystothesun

Um... With the greatest respect, wave guides aren't where I want to take this project.

If you would like to look back at my first post, you will see that I want to make a classic 2-way direct radiating closed box system with reasonably high output capability.

The interesting bit is whether there are any big woofers which do what the classic 8 inch 2-way systems did, only more so.

I had identified two possibilities, but thanks to this thread there are three candidates now.

Has anyone got any other suggestions?

The AESpeakers TD12M 12" woofer is great up past 1200Hz.

Or pro audio drivers like the Faital Pro and Eminence do very well past 1000Hz.

[sidewaystothesun]

Hi MisterTwister,

I'm not sure about your observations on the Seas cone.

Directivity is also a factor. You need to look in the time domain (waterfall) to see about energy strorage. I don't yet have any information about any of these drivers about time domain performance (Can anyone help here?).

But enough people are saying the Seas 10" is good to make me take it seriously. Seas are very experienced and it seems they decided to keep this driver in production, even when the original frame was discontinued. That tells me something...

On composites: From my point of view, energy storage happens anyway. It's what you do with it that counts. "Advanced corrugated composite material" may be like metal cones: You get good behaviour for octaves, but then it all goes wrong at once and rings like a bell. Result: You have to use a high order crossover... and that rings like a bell as well.

If you want a nice simple system, maybe a classic flared paper cone is the best. It bends a bit all over the upper frequency range, but never too much at any particular frequency. It also has high internal damping, so it stops doing it relatively quickly. Result (if it is a good one): It is naturally not too bad, and so you don't have to do much electrically to control it.

I always try to remember that filters ring as well as loudspeaker diaphragms.

[Pano]

Mr-T, have you actually heard the Seas 10" woofer? I have and "too much energy storage" is certainly not what comes to my mind. It's very clean sounding. Very "quiet." It makes a lot of other woofers sound "cluttered."

Reading specs is fun and is a good start - but does not tell the whole story.

[tinitus]

Originally Posted by alspe

Yes. 87 dB is not enough for A26re4. It is not far away but there's no sense in lowering spl of bass.

Baffle step loss

Anyway, to have any chance to judge all such drivers approaching the possible limits you will need real life knowledge with that particular driver, everything else is speculation
And one person might make it work and another may fail, hard to say

[sidewaystothesun]

Hi Tinitus,

Good for you! You are so right. You do have to actually try things, not just speculate about them... But if you can do it in an informed way, with help from others, it makes all the difference. This is the key and makes mistakes less likely.

My mistake was not to have joined up with diyaudio earlier. By signing up yesterday and asking one simple question I have been given a wealth of information.

I could have spent quite a lot of money buying the wrong drivers for what I want to do. Instead, for no money at all (I think I should make a donation) and in just one day, I've had the input of a community of people who have been there before, and are willing to share their knowledge.

As best I can and when I can, I'll try to share my knowledge as well (see my last post, which was not meant unkindly at all, by the way)

[sidewaystothesun]

Hi Panomaniac,

I should have included you in my last post as well, but your post was, by mischance, off the top of my screen. Apologies. All sentiments apply equally.

[Pano]

Originally Posted by sidewaystothesun

.....which was not meant unkindly at all, by the way

Ditto here. I did not want to sound to harsh toward Mr. Twister, but I have heard the Seas driver and it's an exceptionally good one. And it can be used with no low pass filter at all, if you are a bit clever with your tweeter.

As you say, reading the spec sheets is a good guide, find what you think might work then ask others who have used it. That's the most painless way to success.

You'll be happy with any of the drivers you mentioned, they are all good. Finding a good tweeter and building a good crossover is going to be the real challenge.