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Old 16th October 2009, 12:50 AM   #1
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Default DIY Audio 3-way reference project??

OK as I suggested a new thread here it is.

Where do we start?

What size woofer for the bass? If we do what I want most people would find poor WAF as I really like big woofers.

Given Rabbitz comments on bass quality and simple 2.5 way set-ups that is one option, but my preference would be for a full 3-way. With the possible option of 3.5 way with the 0.5 woofer firing to the rear for baffle step.
Perhaps the best solution is to pick a midrange that gives a smooth end extended range and then select a woofer and tweeter to complement it and extend the range up and down.

What is the aim in the bass? All the way down to 25Hz? or just down to 40?

Perhaps a good little driver like the Peerless 832873

Speaker driver

Although I would find it hard to rebate the truncated frame.

We may even need 2 options, one for a sealed box and the other for a ported box, although to keep it as simple and small as possible dual 8 inch woofers in a sealed box may be a reasonable compromise between bass extension and good WAF.
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Old 16th October 2009, 03:46 AM   #2
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I'd suggest a 10" woofer as a compromise between WAF and outright performance. You can consider separating the woofer and mid/tweeter cabinets and using the woofer cabinets as the stands for the mid/tweeter cabinet.

The crossover freq is going to be important... how low do you want your mid's playing, and how high can your woofer comfortably go. My 10" drivers are not available any more otherwise I'd suggest them (maybe a bit on the expensive side though)

Having separate cabs presents a bit of a dilemma when it comes to the crossover I guess, but it adds some flexibility too. An external crossover is a possibility, and it makes active crossing simpler too.

My strategy is to have my crossover freq at the baffle step freq (200Hz in my case) and actively cross at that freq, using gain adj for the woofer to bring the level up to match the mid/tweet and avoid any crossover circuitry on the woofer. I haven't yet decided on the BSC for the mid/tweet.

I'm using 5" drivers for my mids, but perhaps a 4" full range may be a good option. Certainly my mids and tweets are outside of the price range that would be appropriate for a diyAudio reference design.

I guess another really important decision is whether the woofer will be sealed or ported (or even TL)!! That is bound to cause some contention!

Tony.
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Old 16th October 2009, 04:49 AM   #3
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Sorry, but I'd say a so-called "reference project" is just meaningless. We all have different priorities and problems to deal with, so what exactly is the 'reference' ?

There are many thoroughly thoughtful contributors here in this forum, and most of the time their opinions are so different. Such diversity has already provided so many feasible ideas for anyone who wants to jump in. That's enough, or more than enough.

Just my 2c.
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Old 16th October 2009, 04:57 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wintermute View Post
I'd suggest a 10" woofer as a compromise between WAF and outright performance. You can consider separating the woofer and mid/tweeter cabinets and using the woofer cabinets as the stands for the mid/tweeter cabinet.
First thing that pops into my brain is putting the existing 2-way ref on top of that 10" woof.

Quote:
perhaps a 4" full range may be a good option.
Wouldn't take much to convince me of that (ouch, quit twisting so hard )

dave
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Old 16th October 2009, 05:36 AM   #5
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Hi Dave/ Wintermute/CLS

Putting the existing 2-way on top would be a great idea if it wasn't for the fact that Vifa has discontinued the P13 and there are very few left.
Taking from the original thread "REFERENCE" here does not mean ultimate, but a system to which other systems could be compared and as a more simple project than some that have been posted.

While I personally prefer to Bi-amp perhaps as a DIY reference this should be passive only.

So what-ever drivers come to be used they need to be available worldwide and for at least the next couple of years, I would hazard that this isn't a project for the beginners but a "Next Step" for people who want just a little more, bearing in mind that that last bottom octave or two will double the cost of the project ( at least )
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Old 16th October 2009, 07:16 AM   #6
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3/3.5 sounds good to me.

Down to past 40 Hz.
How much do we want to spend.?
We should include a crossover, but those who want biamping, no brainer just don't build the crossover.

I'd like to build something fairly high end. We can consolidate our requirements for some $$ savings.
I need some high WAF some would consider 10" absolute max. It would depend not only on the size but the ration width to depth to height. i was considering using the either the modified Thor or Zaph ZRT as my starting point.

With group resources we could get some of the trickeir parts made up e.g routed items curved panels etc very cost effectively.
Who is located in Melbourne?
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Old 16th October 2009, 07:35 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moondog55 View Post

Putting the existing 2-way on top would be a great idea if it wasn't for the fact that Vifa has discontinued the P13
Yes, that makes the idea a no go... maybe an idea to rev the 2-way ref because of that.

If we think about 4 inchish FRs to use as a midrange, let's create a list of suspects that should be around for awhile, have wide distribution, and don't cost too much

Fostex FE103e (has been around for sometime, one hopes Fostex won't rev it anytime soon)
CSS/Mark Audio EL70 (Bob is insistent that this driver remain the same for an extended time so that a box library can be built up. 4 ohms might be an issue)
MarkAudio CHR-70 (also 4 ohms and efficiency is not all that great)
TandBand has a number of 4" but the models seem to be on a carosel.

I find that an amazingly short list... there must be more

dave
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Old 16th October 2009, 07:58 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
First thing that pops into my brain is putting the existing 2-way ref on top of that 10" woof.



Wouldn't take much to convince me of that (ouch, quit twisting so hard )

dave
Good thinking Dave! (at least until I read Moondogs response about the driver availability)

If the 2 way was revamped with current drivers, and there was an optional stereo sub "speaker stand" it would give people an upgrade path.... Obviously it would need to play down to a level that was acceptable without the bass units, but would be enhanced significantly by adding them.

So maybe three references to be developed, new version of reference 2 way, a pair of reference stereo subs as an upgrade path for the reference 2 way with options for active or passive crossover (fits in well with some of the strategies I've seen for WAF) and a complete standalone 3 way reference speaker

I agree it shouldn't be considered the ultimate speaker (is there such a thing?) just something that the majority of people would think was a decent sounding speaker at a reasonable price.... Just don't count on me building anything, you will likely be waiting a LONG time

Tony.
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Old 16th October 2009, 08:03 AM   #9
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Hmm, in my opinion a real "reference speaker" has to be 4-way to perform with reference sound-quality all the way from top to bottom. I`ve spent some years doing just that speaker. But 4-way is not the easyest thing to tune.
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Old 16th October 2009, 08:10 AM   #10
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I'm in Geelong, only an hour away ( if you drive at the speed limit ) or 45 minutes by train
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