Boxed woofer + dipole mid/top

alspe · 12th October 2009, 08:32 AM

Hi.

I'm considering speaker project to start.

Have you seen lot of designs with BR/closed woofer and dipole mids / top, maybe with one fullrange driver? Humblehomemade (modulus) has one and other one I've seen is PFM special.
Humble Homemade Hifi
http://www.roadum.org.uk/BoM-final-revamp.pdf
Some say best of both worlds. I know that biggest room problems are on bass area but still...

Fullrange dipole insist very large cones and distance to back wall. With decent 8-12" woofer BR boxed + tuned to 35 Hz you can make speaker smaller ( higher WAF

) and maybe shorten the distance to back wall. How short it could be if XO is for example 400-500 Hz? With that high XO fullrange can handle louder SPL's.

Of course there is large variation in directivity between boxed bass and dipole mid.

Any ideas of this?

john k... · 12th October 2009, 10:23 AM

NaO Mini

gainphile · 12th October 2009, 12:36 PM

Dipole + Monopole never worked for me. They sounded 'off', but my experiments were limited in that area.

Similar to ESL+monopole combination/hybrid. Sure the quantity is there, but...

rabbitz · 13th October 2009, 11:09 AM

No problem with OB mid and boxed bass for me as I've heard several which sounded great. I've listened to plenty built by Andy G and bass quality is exceptional, especially Gumby.
see Andy's Gumby for a great example

I dabbled with it for a couple of years and found the bass driver best crossoved over below 150Hz so it didn't contribute a great deal to the mids. In the end I reverted to sealed mids as the room was not suitable for OB.

I'm an ex bass player and OB bass doesn't sound right with the ones I've heard. Others of course could be completely different.

badman · 13th October 2009, 07:37 PM

I agree that it's largely a matter of a low enough XO. It's a crossover, and a particularly problematic one due to the different patterns. If you can get it to a less sensitive frequency band, like <150Hz, you largely avoid the issues.

Rudolf · 13th October 2009, 09:22 PM

I would like to take badmans argument a little bit further: Depending on the room size there is a (soft) frequency threshold, beyond which you in fact don´t hear the speaker, but the room modes. There is no iron law that dipoles deal better with room modes than boxed speakers - it is your turn to find the best placement for every speaker. Pushing a speaker to the wall too much will ALWAYS be detrimental - regardless of working principal.

Andy G · 13th October 2009, 10:18 PM

Another couple of similar designs,
Undefinition - DIY - Aethers
Undefinition - DIY - Sunflowers

There's plenty of well designed cases of vented or sealed bass with OB mids/top end.

12th October 2009, 08:32 AM	#1
alspe diyAudio Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Finland/Tampere	Boxed woofer + dipole mid/top Hi. I'm considering speaker project to start. Have you seen lot of designs with BR/closed woofer and dipole mids / top, maybe with one fullrange driver? Humblehomemade (modulus) has one and other one I've seen is PFM special. Humble Homemade Hifi http://www.roadum.org.uk/BoM-final-revamp.pdf Some say best of both worlds. I know that biggest room problems are on bass area but still... Fullrange dipole insist very large cones and distance to back wall. With decent 8-12" woofer BR boxed + tuned to 35 Hz you can make speaker smaller ( higher WAF ) and maybe shorten the distance to back wall. How short it could be if XO is for example 400-500 Hz? With that high XO fullrange can handle louder SPL's. Of course there is large variation in directivity between boxed bass and dipole mid. Any ideas of this?

12th October 2009, 10:23 AM	#2
john k... diyAudio Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: US	NaO Mini __________________ John k.... Music and Design NaO Dipole Loudspeakers. "We have no right to assume that any physical laws exist, or if they have existed up to now, that will continue to exist in a similar manner in the future." Max Planck

12th October 2009, 12:36 PM	#3
gainphile diyAudio Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Melbourne the sunny city!	Dipole + Monopole never worked for me. They sounded 'off', but my experiments were limited in that area. Similar to ESL+monopole combination/hybrid. Sure the quantity is there, but... __________________ http://gainphile.blogspot.com

13th October 2009, 11:09 AM	#4
rabbitz diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Newcastle, Australia	No problem with OB mid and boxed bass for me as I've heard several which sounded great. I've listened to plenty built by Andy G and bass quality is exceptional, especially Gumby. see Andy's Gumby for a great example I dabbled with it for a couple of years and found the bass driver best crossoved over below 150Hz so it didn't contribute a great deal to the mids. In the end I reverted to sealed mids as the room was not suitable for OB. I'm an ex bass player and OB bass doesn't sound right with the ones I've heard. Others of course could be completely different. __________________ No longer DIY active

13th October 2009, 07:37 PM	#5
badman Custom Title diyAudio Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sunny Tustin, SoCal	I agree that it's largely a matter of a low enough XO. It's a crossover, and a particularly problematic one due to the different patterns. If you can get it to a less sensitive frequency band, like <150Hz, you largely avoid the issues. __________________ I write for www.enjoythemusic.com in the DIY section. You may find yourself getting a preview of a project in-progress. Be warned!


	Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you. Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving

13th October 2009, 09:22 PM	#6
Rudolf diyAudio Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Germany	I would like to take badmans argument a little bit further: Depending on the room size there is a (soft) frequency threshold, beyond which you in fact don´t hear the speaker, but the room modes. There is no iron law that dipoles deal better with room modes than boxed speakers - it is your turn to find the best placement for every speaker. Pushing a speaker to the wall too much will ALWAYS be detrimental - regardless of working principal. __________________ www.dipolplus.de

13th October 2009, 10:18 PM	#7
Andy G diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Newcastle, Australia	Another couple of similar designs, Undefinition - DIY - Aethers Undefinition - DIY - Sunflowers There's plenty of well designed cases of vented or sealed bass with OB mids/top end.

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