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Old 26th July 2009, 06:09 PM   #1
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Cool Econowave tweeter + which woofer?

I am intrigued by the econowave tweeter (selenium compression driver plus inexpensive jbl horn) and always thought a large two way would be simple fun and have a great, dynamic sound. I was wondering if anyone has matched the econowave tweeter to good effect with a woofer? In my mind i've thought about mating it with an Eminence Lil Buddy on an open baffle and filling in the bottom with H-frames or another type of woofer compliment... or just a 12 or 15 inch efficient woofer that is not too expensive... under $100 each for example... the cheaper the better, in a simple box. Has anyone successfully used the econowave tweeter?

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Old 26th July 2009, 06:52 PM   #2
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Obviously a whole host of people have integrated this with the JBL woofer. Similar (and cheaper woofers) such as came in some of the cerwin vega gear of the same vintage would probably work too (thank Ron E for that tip).

The JA 8008 would make a pretty interesting combo. WAY outside the pricerange. You might want to take a look for the woofer that this was based on. I know for a fact that there are some out there. For $80 + $20 for the surround you can have something eerily similar.
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Old 28th July 2009, 01:29 PM   #3
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I'm watching one member who is planning on using 2 dayton 10 inch woofers. With 2 woofers, sensitivity will be up some, they make decent bass and are only 30 bucks or less apiece.

Otherwise, at a slightly higher price, I would try JBL 2235H, sort of a modern, MUCH simplified 4430. The 4430 crossover and sysytem while 2 way, is anything but simple. Easy to clone, but boy did JBL put the engineers to work on this fine monitor.

Also had great results with JBL 2225H in the same box. ( JBL 4507/4647.) Other members have used 2226H successfully as well.

The older advents seem to be a real popular woofer box to use, many have used this inexpensive woofer/box combo.

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Old 28th July 2009, 08:21 PM   #4
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Default Re: Econowave tweeter + which woofer?

Quote:
Originally posted by Godzilla
I am intrigued by the econowave tweeter (selenium compression driver plus inexpensive jbl horn) and always thought a large two way would be simple fun and have a great, dynamic sound. I was wondering if anyone has matched the econowave tweeter to good effect with a woofer? In my mind i've thought about mating it with an Eminence Lil Buddy on an open baffle and filling in the bottom with H-frames or another type of woofer compliment... or just a 12 or 15 inch efficient woofer that is not too expensive... under $100 each for example... the cheaper the better, in a simple box. Has anyone successfully used the econowave tweeter?

TIA,
Godzilla

Zilch and I discussed this some time back (but don't know where). To get both a matching directivity/power response and keep the crossover above the horn's mouth resonance will require a LOT of work. The ONLY way that JBL managed to do it was NOT with 10", 12", or 15" inch drivers - but rather with a smaller mid-range coupled to its own horn. Good news is that it's about as cheap as the other horn AND it uses an inexpensive eminence driver. bad news is that it's a "closed-back" driver AND it's now a 3-way requiring steep filters at both points.

Alternative:

The RCF H100 horn can get you much lower in freq. which allows you to crossover to a 15" driver. (the "econowave" is best crossed above 2.5 kHz, the RCF H100 however spec.s to 800 which generally translates into 1200 Hz - depending on pattern control.)

Objective:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/francis....son_1pouce.pdf

Subjective:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...09#post1837409



Moderate cost Suggestion:

RCF H100 with B&C DE12 (mylar)

Selenium 15PW3-SLF (in a large volume aperiodic enclosure)

Tricky part will be the cross-over.
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Old 28th July 2009, 09:08 PM   #5
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Much of our early work was done with LE14A woofers, and there's a simple lowpass mod documented for that particular one. Upgrade path is LE14H-3, if you can get them. The venerable 123A(-x)/2213(H) was also an early favorite, which works well closed-box.

Others have used the 15" drivers Russell cites, though the directivity match is not optimum. No matter, they rock, as desired. Large Advents have been popular because they are plentiful, typically available for $20 or less a pair locally everywhere, and the waveguide fits the baffle.

The EconoWave crossover is designed with high-frequency compensation specific to the Selenium D220Ti using a minimalist implementation of Wayne Parham's Pi-Speakers topology, the electrical highpass occurring up around 3 kHz, but the acoustic crossover frequency is ~1.6 kHz, depending on which woofer is used. 12" and 10" drivers are a good choice, and there are plenty of them from among which to choose.

The simple 2-pole lowpass filter we provide as a generic starting point should be optimized by the builder for the chosen woofer. Few have actually done that, but achieve pleasing results without this refinement; over 50 systems have been "officially" completed to date.

A PC board (from the Zilchster) is available to facilitate crossover construction as shown in the YouTube video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw7pTwpx0K0

Godzilla's attitude regarding EconoWave is consistent with what we intended for the design -- it's cheap, it's fun, it's easy, and it''s a surprisingly listenable entry-level introduction to modern constant-directivity waveguide design principles and performance. Just do it.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=150939
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Old 28th July 2009, 09:43 PM   #6
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Zilch, what are the part numbers for both the treble waveguide and the mid waveguides?
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Old 28th July 2009, 10:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG
Zilch, what are the part numbers for both the treble waveguide and the mid waveguides?
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/PRX...ies/PRX535.pdf
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Old 29th July 2009, 12:21 AM   #8
infinia is offline infinia  United States
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Zilch
How about using an Eminence Beta-10CX as a plain old woofer in a ported box (w/ center plug sealed) with a normal EconoWave top end? w/ Little to no xover mods.
It's got a 2" VC reasonable eff ~95 dB/2.8 V and decent low end extension for a $69.99 10" woofer. http://www.usspeaker.com/BETA10CX-1.htm

You have looked at this idea recently I think or suggest anything better at this price that looks good to you?
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Old 29th July 2009, 03:26 AM   #9
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>>> No matter, they rock, as desired.

That's what i thought. I am still considering the waveguide plus the lil buddy on an open baffle... but would move the crossover up to 3.5k... unless there is good sonic reasons for keeping the crossover lower?? I am also considering an eminence 10 or 12" in a simple ported box. I would be going for a big, dynamic sound.

Cool vid! Thanks for sharing!

Godzilla
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Old 29th July 2009, 04:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by infinia
How about using an Eminence Beta-10CX as a plain old woofer in a ported box (w/ center plug sealed) with a normal EconoWave top end? w/ Little to no xover mods. It's got a 2" VC reasonable eff ~95 dB/2.8 V and decent low end extension for a $69.99 10" woofer.
We looked at that option today to consider for next year. Clearly, an external waveguide would be better than using it coax.

We didn't pay much attention to its performance as a woofer, but from the suggested apps, it looks like it wants 3 cuft to play low, and may require boundary reinforcement for that to work well. If you have them, they can be made to work, looks like, but starting from scratch, I'd be looking at other options.

I'm afraid my experience with Eminence drivers is extremely limited....
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